Guerilla gardening, how to grow food without owning land

Trying to grow a secure source of food that can't be stolen, destroyed, embargoed or poisoned. Identified the best option is growing root vegetables in unmaintained public land, like forests. Buying food from the market leaves you at the mercy of dystopian food monopoly, who have introduced absurd measures like cashless only or ID required. Getting food from charity leaves you with no choice of food, and highly rationed distribution. Growing food on your own land, solves the food choice, supply and cash issue, but incurs both tax cost and risk of eminent domain taking the land away before the crops are harvested. These are all really bad options for food security. Therefore the best option is growing food on public land, which would solve all these issues including eliminating tax and property seizure. Just have to choose a good, remote location, and hide the crop among other plants nearby. A forest, rural park, road or abandoned property should be a good place. The best type of crop for this location should be a perennial, drought-proof root vegetable like potato, since there is no watering except rainfall. A perennial will keep growing year after year without maintenance or needing to buy new seeds, and a root crop would be well hidden, capable of fully regrowing even if the plant is cut down. A root crop is also fairly resistant to attempts to poison. Just dig a hole, plant the potato and leave for a few months until harvest. It should easily be possible to grow enough potatoes to feed yourself and others, indefinitely for free. Worst case scenario is someone cuts the plants down, but it's not really hard to plant more at other locations. Any suggestions on site locations or alternate crops?

I have been trying to this for a year now here some of my strategies. First of all start with wild herbs, i dont know specific names in english nor do i know what types of plants are in your vicinity, but many wild plants are not only good food when grown well but also as medicine. Dont underestimate common garden weeds, when grown properly they can make for excellent salads and soups. Get to know your local vegetation, what grows where and how does it interact with its environment around it and how you can use it for whatever reason. You will want to have some sort of base somewhere, with some gardening equipment stashed. It may take some time to find a location that is not only well concealed but also has good starting conditions, you will have to scout a lot in places where people would not want to go, but its well worth it. Around that place grow as many different plants as you can, not only for food but primary to seed them further. Wild plants will also be your primary means of hiding your growing ops. For example blackberries are perfect for not only visual cover but also can be used to make fences, all you need to do is put them in the right direction. Its a very experimental kind of thing, you will need space and time, try with different plants and techniques, but once you have some sort of working setup its a piece of cake. Remember too you will have much more of things with different kinds of plants than just single ones, the right plants will support one another and act also as cover.

>>5049 >Trying to grow a secure source of food that can't be stolen, destroyed, embargoed or poisoned. >Therefore the best option is growing food on public land.

Any suggestions on site locations or alternate crops? either grow inside your appartment or spam that soykaf like crazy all over the place

>>5050 >I have been trying to this for a year now here some of my strategies. How large is your yield so far? Is it enough to feed one person? >know your local vegetation, what grows where and how does it interact with its environment around it Good idea, local vegetation grows very well under local climate, without need for care or watering. >a location that is not only well concealed but also has good starting conditions Yes, for most plants you would want a site with full sun, but that makes it somewhat more difficult to conceal. Grow a shrub or herb if you don't have access to full sun. >Around that place grow as many different plants as you can, not only for food but primary to seed them further. >Wild plants will also be your primary means of hiding your growing ops. Excellent ideas, having multiple plant species makes it very hard to identify the site as a garden. I guess also don't plant in rows, or grow without ground cover. Also spreading wild, heirloom plants is always a good idea.

If you want fruits, you could graft fruit tree branches onto local trees. No one can tell that it's a fruit branch until the fruit grows, at which point you harvest. This method will yield fruits many years sooner than planting from seed or transplant.

>>5053 The worse it gets, the more free land there is, and the easier it becomes to grow your own vegetables. Every single foreclosed house or business is 1000s of square feet of growing space each. At the very least, I would spread dandelions over the entire site, rather than let it be wasted. >>5056 Of course, the classic method of guerilla gardening is to throw seed bombs everywhere.

>>5053 What you don't seem to understand, is that today you don't have to be aware of nanny state/bigcorpo but also "normal" people. I know lots of nice initiatives like yours that were simply put to void by people that are pure disrespectful vandals for the only purpose of "fuarrrk things". You have first to educate people to respect the value of work if you want to get rid of "private propriety". What would be your sentiment when a morning you found all the work you do completely annihilated by some low IQ destructive consumers? Until you live in the wild where you are sure to not meet this kind of scumfucks. I talk from experiences in urban environment and some ZAD where everyone was welcome because "equality".

Wouldn't it be best to plant in forests and protected parks rather than urban environments so you can avoid contaminants? Some trees have large open knots that can easily hold soil for planting in.

>>5061 Sure. But there is a huge trend on ecology in Europe and lots of cities and citizens has started to do some "guerilla" gardens or assimilated in the cities and the fact that there are always scums to turn it to soykaf.

>>5060 Do they go around destroying weeds too? If not, you can disguise your plant as a weed. Let them try to attack random trees and shrubs. Being a guerilla gardener is not about fighting head on confrontations, but hiding, ambushing and retreating in order to bleed the enemy dry without suffering any losses.

>Trying to grow a secure source of food that can't be stolen, destroyed, embargoed or poisoned. >can't be stolen, destroyed, embargoed or poisoned. No such thing. Even farmers fields can be poisoned by GMOs from the next field over. If you have no land start off with a herb garden on a window ledge. Also look into hydroponics. Hydroponics is growing plants without soil. Hydroponics suits an indoor garden and is closest to what you're looking for. Some people do stealth indoor hydroponics too! Here are some ideas https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/337981147011824611/ If you are looking to do things in a schway cyber way look at rotary hydroponics to build your own space food lab. Note for OPSEC - If you use grow lights do be aware that many law enforcement agencies in many countries scan homes from the air to look for unusually warm heat signatures which can indicate illegal drug growing dens using grow lights. The scanning is highly privacy invasive and totalitarian but most people don't know they do it.

>>5065 I found a Hydroponics thread here >>4862 To other lainons like OP consider if it is best to have one /gardening/ thread for all things gardening rather than keep creating new threads, or post in another thread on a similar subject rather than making a new thread. Lainchan has many high quality slow threads that new users are bumping off the catalog by creating these new threads each time they turn up. The threads here are like fine wine, rather than crushed ice and soda - and there are a lot of vintage bottles that need some tlc. ;)

I once planted some native-ish fruiting shrubberies among the existing shrubberies in the local natural area. Maybe a month later the government came and mowed the entire area to a desolate wasteland. Because, as we know, to be truly natural an area must be vigilantly maintained lest it start to grow in unapproved ways. >>5061 >Some trees have large open knots that can easily hold soil for planting in. Please don't do this, it rots the tree.

>>5057 >How large is your yield so far? Is it enough to feed one person? Its not so much, but that is because i still have much to set up. There is a lot that can be found nearby however, i dont know if i could feed myself completely with it, but if times are hard it would be enough to survive a few weeks atleast, assuming its not winter. I havent eaten any yet really because i save them to spread out as much as i can and experiment to see how to maximize my gains. Im also still busy collecting as many different plants as i can. >Yes, for most plants you would want a site with full sun, but that makes it somewhat more difficult to conceal. Actually there are many plants that dont like full sun, altough it would be preferable its also a good idea if your garden is hidden behind trees and such. >>5059 >I would spread dandelions over the entire site, rather than let it be wasted. Thats the right idea, they are not only edible in many ways, but any plant also helps the environment. Any plant you can throw in one more for them to destroy. >>5064 Humans just seem to love to stomp out incent plants that is only guilty of living there, luckly you can seed out more plants than they can destroy, every stone in their way helps to exhaust them, if you keep helping plants in strategic ways you can eventually wear out those people. Even if they go around stomping up every piece of land they can, they cant stomp out all the plants.

Now I think about it wouldn't growing in a van or RV camper be a good idea? It would act like a green house when you need it to be and you can control the temperature by using heating and AC or just opening and closing windows and moving around to different places.

>>5069 >Even if they go around stomping up every piece of land they can, they cant stomp out all the plants. you really underestimate how stupid and stubborn some people are.

>>5065 >Even farmers fields can be poisoned by GMOs from the next field over. Good luck trying to use GMO corn to poison my diverse field of potatoes, legumes and herbs. You'd need to to have the same species of plant for GMOs to cross pollinate, and the vegetables I plant don't require pollination, because they reproduce vegetatively. >Some people do stealth indoor hydroponics too! The main problem with hydroponics is that it requires a constant supply of chemical fertilizer solution, which is fairly hard and expensive to obtain. It uses a ton of water, and requires expensive pumps and pH monitors, and will require huge amounts of electricity if you grow indoors with grow lights. You can't really grow outdoors with hydroponics, unless you constantly filter the medium, which limits the maximum growing area. Hydroponics is just for high value crops, space stations, and as a toy for the rich. It's useless for actually feeding large amounts of people. If you want to grow indoors, I would grow tropical plants in soil like citrus or tomatoes if you have light, or oyster mushrooms on cardboard if you don't. Never buy fertilizer, soil or medium, just take it from the ground outside for free. >If you use grow lights do be aware that many law enforcement agencies in many countries scan homes from the air to look for unusually warm heat signatures You can block IR cameras with radiative insulation like aluminum foil on the roof to reduce the thermal radiation of the house. The outer layer of the camouflage netting doesn't need to reflective, just the layer facing the house. So just place aluminum foil on a tarp, and cover the roof with it, aluminum foil on the inside, and tarp on the outside. You can actually place more than one layer of aluminum foil to reduce the emissions further, if you space the layers out.

>>5067 >>5061 You could plant a tomato vine inside, which would protect its roots from being easily destroyed. By wrapping the vine around tree a few times, you can even prevent the tomato from being pulled out by the vine. Just place a layer of sand under the soil to prevent moisture from rotting the bark. >I once planted some native-ish fruiting shrubberies among the existing shrubberies in the local natural area. Maybe a month later the government came and mowed the entire area to a desolate wasteland. That's the reason to use root crops, or crops that can regrow and spread through roots. Assume they will try to destroy your crops and plants, so just make it hard for them to succeed. They want to destroy the environment with pesticides, gmos and licenses, just to force you to buy food from them to survive.

>>5069 >Its not so much, but that is because i still have much to set up. Most gardens take at least 2 years to become productive, about 5-7 for fruit trees. I guess it's a good idea to use herbs and vegetables because they can grow in one season. It should be about 200 sqft for 300 pounds of vegetables. >i save them to spread out as much as i can and experiment to see how to maximize my gains. Good idea, replanting the initial crop is good way to rapidly expand the garden. >Actually there are many plants that dont like full sun Some shrubs and herbs, but they have less yield than full sun plants. You could actually increase the sunlight even if your site is concealed by using mirrors like aluminum foil. Although that would make it an obvious garden if anyone did find it. >if you keep helping plants in strategic ways you can eventually wear out those people. That is a great idea, to show them how the plants grow faster than they can destroy them. They hate weeds because it is their weakness!

>>5075 Sunlight would be the limit factor of growing in an RV, unless you have a sun roof and mirrors or use grow lights. Probably more expensive than a greenhouse. But it's mobile at least.

>>5078 if you can, pomegranite trees are a bitch and a half to remove.

>>5081 ah damn, I'm forgetting which kind of fruit it is... but there is one that is extremely difficult to remove. I think it was pomegranites

>>5080 I was thinking more along the lines of a class B RV aka a camper van, or a camper trailer or travel trailer or just any type of trailer you tow behind. Modified of course. You don't want too big or it may limit access to some roads and parking spaces. Other options include box trucks or busses such as school busses which would be not too difficult to remove the roof panels to replace with something transparent or transluscent if needed. I have managed to find examples https://youtube.com/watch?v=h-g74F-U9yU https://youtube.com/watch?v=PwtKHzGEoxw https://nuvo.newsnirvana.com/news/butler-ball-state-tackle-urban-farming-with-mobile-greenhouse-concept/article_86b6297b-4200-53e7-92d2-45202facdc13.html

search for Parietaria officinalis in cities. it grows like crazy in cracks on the floor and has some nice properties as a medicinal herb. my grandma has his whole graden taken by this herb. I believe that maybe in parks, near bushes is the best place to grow potatoes or carrots. it will require however to loose tha soil and maybe is difficult to do it without calling attention. also there's allways the chance to grow things in buckets in a Balcony, or even near a window with sunlight. Man, wish my room had at least one window to do this.

>>5085 Just imagine how many saplings you could fit in those incredible greenhouse trailers. With one of those, you could rapidly transplant 1000s of fruit tree saplings anywhere along 1000s of km of road, just park and transplant a sapling every 100 m. This is probably the fastest way to plant huge numbers of fruit trees. >>5086 If you must, you can guerilla garden at night. No one patrols businesses, let alone parks at night. Growing in pavement cracks is another great idea, just throw seeds in. Another good place is rooftops.

>>5064 It's common during the summer these scums starts bush fires or forest fire. So yes, basically they destroy weeds and trees randomly because they are nothing but useless pieces of soykaf (that exist only because nanny state give them the same right of existence as a hard devoted worker). Picrel, typically those scumbags (here our local commies/leftists by the way love to take care of them because they have the right to become good consumers).

>>5093 Plant fire-resistant shrubs and trees like Salal, they can easily regrow from the roots after a forest fire. Guerilla gardening is about making it much more difficult for someone to stop you, than it is for you to plant. It should be at least 10 times harder for someone to destroy your plants than it is for you to grow them. This is how one person fights an army. With the greenhouse trailer and a bicycle, you can plant fruit trees anywhere within several km of a road very easily. Just have one person drive the trailer along the road, and another person to bike in a random zigzag pattern 1 km near the road and plant the saplings everywhere along the way. Have the person on the bike return to the trailer to get more saplings as needed, while slowly moving the trailer along the road. Someone trying to stop you would have to perform a 1 square km grid search to find all the transplanted saplings, for every 1 km that you just had to bike in a straight line. Also plant some potatoes too. You can also broadcast grain seeds, or blow dandelion seeds everywhere. Let them try to find every seed and plant then.

If you are still under the illusion that governments are literally not trying to destroy your crops to starve you and force you to rely on them, search "forced draft mobilization", a scheme during the Vietnam War by the US to destroy the food crops of Vietnam, in order to force the entire population to move into cities where they could be controlled easily. To deal with the threat of chemical defoliants like Agent Orange being sprayed from the air to destroy your plants, like during the Vietnam War, space your plants out. They can only spray a contiguous rectangular area, and if you plant irregularly in a non-row, non-rectangular pattern and space your plots apart, they won't be able to spray the majority of your plants. If they try to spray a chemical weapon like VX to try and poison your plants, don't worry, no organic poison is persistent. VX does not affect the health of the plant, and VX breaks down after 3 weeks, and the plants will become edible again. Biological threats to crops used in Guerilla Gardening are insignificant, because the biodiverse, heirloom plants grown are extremely disease resistant compared to the GMO monocultures in corporate agriculture. Good luck trying to infect my crops with a virus, when it only affects one plant species out of hundreds planted. Biodiversity also strongly protects against attempts to contaminate the plants with GMO pollen, because the pollen can't pollinate a plant from a different species, or one that doesn't flower. Nuclear and radiological threats are extremely serious, because they will destroy your plants if you do nothing. You must decontaminate and wash off any radioactive substances from nuclear fallout or nuclear waste as soon as possible to save the plant. Set up a sprinkler system to remotely wash your plant. Then decontaminate the soil around the site by removing the top 3 cm. The primary radioactive isotopes are Cobalt-60, Caesium-137, Strontium-90, which have half-lives of 5 years, 30 years, 28 years, which means the soil removed must be stored away for about 120 years. Most plants are highly resistant against radiation, trees at Chernobyl have survived well, despite the release of radiation exceeding that of a nuclear bomb by several orders of magnitude. Do not worry about radiation in the food harvested, because radioactive substances don't get absorbed into vegetable on contact, and just remain on the surface and can be washed off.

This is a good thread but there is no reason why you can't own land. Just gtfo of big cities. I know we /cyb/ and shiet but cities are fuarrrking cancer. Work your big city tech job for a couple years, live frugal then cash the fuarrrk out and get gone. Buy some cheap land out in the country, and you're home free. Shit, I think burgers can do this and still get decent internet.

>>5049 I chuckled a bit, but sans the guerilla part, your radical approach to obtaining food reminded me of late soviet dacha (a general older meaning of dacha is just a suburban summer vacation home): a suburban garden issued by state to urbanites (most of them second generation peasants) to grow extra food they can not afford buying. Here is an English translation of an overly positivist article about dacha written originally in French: https://www.notechmagazine.com/2020/03/a-dacha-for-everyone-community-gardens-and-food-security-in-russia.html How do you balance accessibility and undiscoverability of your plot? Too far away from place of living and malicious humans - have to spend resources on travel(no public roads, automobiles or trains, right?), too close to populated areas - higher the risk of being discovered and destroyed. Better abandon everything and live innawoods altogether, tending to plants on site. There are documented hermits living such style, and they all rely on grazing animals as early European populations did, apart from hunting and fishing of course, with hunting being restricted and fish absent in waters polluted by megarcorps, there's not much to earn food from. Growing herbs would give you condiments for few soups, that's all. Potato might give some carbs, but it's not a full diet, and I doubt it's possible to do Amazonian permaculture in any forest but Amazonian.

Look up nendo dango, aka seed balls or mud balls. In short, you mix 1 part of assorted seeds in 40 parts of soil, add water and work it like it's dough until you can make balls, leave them drying in the sun for one or two days. You then throw this balls around in empty lots or wherever, and when it rains (if you have enough rain in your area) the seeds will sprout and make a wildish garden. Some of these plants will seed and reproduce themselves. Plant everything everywhere and keep a map of the places you've sowed. Talk to owners of empty lots for permission to garden on it in exchange for some of the produce. Plant indoors and/or on a rooftop in buckets and other recipients. Look it up: you can get bucketfuls of potatoes and things like that. Talk to friends and family members for permission to garden in their yards. If you live in some dystopia where it's illegal to plant a tomato plant, make a garden that doesn't look like one: keep it untidy and let the visible plants be ones that are not easily recognized as food plants. Fukin dystopia, man. Make it an enterprise of building gardens for people in exchange for some of the harvest, or buy it from them on discount or something. Maybe get a group together so you don't do it alone. >>5079 >Most gardens take at least 2 years to become productive There's many plants that will give you a harvest in two months, like some types of peas, carrots, leafy plants like lettuces, turnips, and more. Many of them you can plant all around the year. So I don't know what you mean by becoming productive. >>5096 >blow dandelion seeds everywhere. fuarrrk yea do this while wardriving for WEP wifi. Anyway, this: >>5102 For some reason most lains tend to nerd out on stuff. It's ok if you want to geek out on the desktop threads and take it as a challenge to find a way to customize the color of the UI of some unmantained piece of software from te 90s, but when it comes to feeding yourself and yours, it's best to keep it real and consider what >>5102 says.

>>5096 >blow dandelion seeds everywhere I don't know you but I love you. Spreading dandelions across dead-boring lawns is high on my list of suburban-homeowner-aggravating pleasures. I spent too many years renting half a duplex in dull suburbia. Late-night dog walks would often turn into dandelion-spreading missions.

>>5102 The biggest problem with growing food on your own land that the state knows about, is the possibility of Holodomor-type seizures of all your food. Even during peacetime, in most countries you have to pay tax on land, and that can exceed the value of the food you grow on it. This is not by accident, of course, they designed it to prevent their wageslaves from ever escaping their enslavement.

>>5106 This is great because it is free and untaxed land. 600 square meters of land is enough to grow thousands of pounds of potatoes. >How do you balance accessibility and undiscoverability of your plot? Too far away from place of living and malicious humans - have to spend resources on travel(no public roads, automobiles or trains, right?), too close to populated areas - higher the risk of being discovered and destroyed. The most important factor is the amount of time and labor required to grow a unit of food. If you have a plant that requires no labor to grow like potatoes, you can have a plot that is very far away, because you do not have to travel there often to maintain the plants. All you have to do is plant once in the spring, and harvest in autumn. With potatoes, you do not even need to replant, just harvested every year. >Better abandon everything and live innawoods altogether, tending to plants on site. It is a good idea to live innawoods, but not at the site of your plants. It will attract attention and reveal where your food supply is when SHTF. >rely on grazing animals as early European populations did, apart from hunting and fishing of course, with hunting being restricted and fish absent in waters polluted by megarcorps, there's not much to earn food from Grazing animals are great, but they are hard to hide, and very vulnerable to being poached when SHTF. It would take 5-7 years to regrow a herd from nothing. Restrictions on hunting and fishing are just another system of control the state uses to prevent people from getting free food. Doesn't really matter though, because gardening alone can provide all food needs. >Growing herbs would give you condiments for few soups, that's all. Potato might give some carbs, but it's not a full diet, and I doubt it's possible to do Amazonian permaculture in any forest but Amazonian. You want around 60% potatoes for calories, 30% beans or grains for protein, and 10% vegetables for minerals. Permaculture works in every climate, but the specific plants you grow will depend on the climate. Grow any type of bean or green vegetable that you can, because the nutrition and horticultural function of different types of bean or vegetable are roughly equal.

>>5106 >Look up nendo dango, aka seed balls or mud balls. Always a good idea. >Talk to owners of empty lots for permission to garden on it in exchange for some of the produce. Excellent idea, because it lets you get food without paying money or tax. Also the important thing is teach the owners how to garden, in order to spread the knowledge of guerilla gardening everywhere. >If you live in some dystopia where it's illegal to plant a tomato plant, make a garden that doesn't look like one: keep it untidy and let the visible plants be ones that are not easily recognized as food plants. Guerilla gardening is what you do when they make regular gardening illegal. They are suing farmers who save seeds and replant them, instead of buying more GMO seeds from biotech megacorporations like monsanto. >So I don't know what you mean by becoming productive. Most perennials or biennials may need at least 2 seasons to grow. Fruiting plants and trees will take 5-7 seasons to bear fruit.

>>5109 >Late-night dog walks would often turn into dandelion-spreading missions. Spreading dandelions can be done during the day without any suspicion, and fully legally too. This makes it safer than throwing seed bombs sometimes.

I'm compiling a list for some in my opinion good guerilla gardening plants for the european climate. It's in german but you can paste the names into Wikipedia and go to the english version. Would be happy about some more recommendations. https://anonfiles.com/hfpdpfQ6ob/GG.tar_gz Throwing sunflower seeds on weed plagued roundabout islands is pretty fun as well.

>>5115 Very good, i have been meaning to do something like this for a while, but it got stuck in the toilet. I will review the list and try to add as many plants as can be found around here. Not sure if we can then take this further somehow.

Blowing dandelions sounds like a terrible idea. It will only encourage the use of weed killers that will poison the soil. >>5088 Yes I suppose you could use a mobile greenhouse to grow and transport sapplings .

>>5049 I've gotten a metric soykaf ton of green beans from my garden over the summer- basically enough for a meal every other day. I have two ~4m x ~4m gardens, and I also grow them along the side of my house. That's a lot of green beans, especially for how much I eat on a given day (hint: it's a lot). You have to water them, but for the yield you get I'd say it's worth it (just make sure you have a reliable water source like a river or a ground water pump nearby if you're going without electricity).

>>5049 >eminent domain How common is this? Is it really common enough for you to be scared? Does the chance of getting your land taken away from you increase as you grow food? >forest, rural park, road, abandoned property If it's not state owned, you're probably trespassing. If it is state owned, it is probably visited by a lot of people who might discover your crops. It's not really the ideal place to reliably grow food. Are you targeted or something? Keep in mind that owning multiple properties is an option if you are afraid of eminent domain. but then you have to worry about maintenance.

>>5119 Jon here. Forgot to say that they do need a lot of sunlight so hiding them in a forest is a bad idea.

>>5120 With guerilla gardening the better question is how likely is it to be found and how much work is put into it. There are lots of private and public places where nobody will go or even give a soykaf if someone is on it.

Anything that is toxic to animals especially pets should be avoided for sake of being considerate and also because it will more likely be left alone. So no grapes, no garlic, no onion, no macadamia nuts etc ....

>>5123 >Anything that is toxic to animals especially pets should be avoided for sake of being considerate and also because it will more likely be left alone. What? If an animal eats your plant and dies, it's just natural selection. 1/3 of all plants is toxic, if these pets are dumb enough to eat them, it's their business.

>>5115 Very nice, also some growing notes on how to grow each plant under guerilla conditions and their yield could be useful. >>5117 Dandelion isn't a weed, the entire plant is edible. But if there are people who consider it one, it's easy to defeat their attempts to destroy the plants with chemical herbicides by just reseeding every so often. >>5123 Animals, especially pets, don't usually eat random plants, especially if they are root crops.

>>5119 >>5120 >>5121 Beans are excellent food, and they also improve nitrogen content of the soil. If you have a long-term site, you should plant them in a crop rotation with potatoes. >they do need a lot of sunlight so hiding them in a forest is a bad idea. Forests have spots with good sunlight, just look for south-facing (in the North hemisphere, north-facing in the South hemisphere) clearings on an inclined hill. >How common is this? Is it really common enough for you to be scared? Does the chance of getting your land taken away from you increase as you grow food? This soykaf is a daily occurrence in the West Bank and other occupied territories. Yes, they will take your food and your land at gunpoint. If that is too hard, then they will just burn your crops. Olive groves that took decades to grow are routinely destroyed to deny food to the enemy, YOU. Do not think that what happens to the Palestinians will never happen to you. >If it's not state owned, you're probably trespassing. If it is state owned, it is probably visited by a lot of people who might discover your crops. What land the state says rich landowners own is inconsequential. They could claim they own all the land on Earth, or perhaps just one country, and I would still do the same thing and grow plants to feed myself. Natural damage to plants from animals or random people can be dealt with easily, because unlike the state, it's just part of nature. >Keep in mind that owning multiple properties is an option if you are afraid of eminent domain Never forgot that certain classes of people like minors or noncitizens are legally forbidden from owning property, yet everyone still needs to eat.

>>5124 Again people who know it can harm their pet will get rid of it. So someone ignoring this would be the one being dumb thinking it's a good idea to potentially poison people's pets and expect no repercussions from it including legal response such as lawsuit for killing someone's pet due to negligence in what sometimes counts as an illegal activity. I'm mainly just talking about places actually near residence not away from civilization. So either it shouldn't be grown or at least it should be grown where it can't be seen by people and can't be reached by pets. Even if it's not toxic to an animal you still need to find a way to protect it anyway or else it could just get eaten by a pet or wild animal and you don't want to draw in wild animals like bears to city areas and suburbs because that would draw attention to the area which is another reason someone to eventually destroy the crops.

>>5115 I took a peak and noticed theres quite a few things that could be added, forest herbs and shrubs in particluar. There also seem to be quite a few exotic herbs on the list, its not bad but i think they should be listed seperately since those are unlikely to be found in the wild, however one can sometimes find those in compost and growing near gardens. I can name a few but i dont know if just making a list helps, idk what you reckon i ought to do. >>5123 Different plants have different effects, some poisonous plants are food for some animals and the other way round. If grapes and garlic were that poisonous id have corpses in my garden up the ass.

>>5128 Just post whatever guerilla gardening info or results that you have. If you have a list of plants that you know can be successfully grown in a region, and the expected growing time and yield, it will be very helpful. This kind of local knowledge is far more applicable than just reading a gardening book. >>5127 Don't forget that most of these plants like garlic and grapes do grow wild. To be honest, these aren't even the most poisonous plants in the wild to pets. More likely a hungry pet would eat a random mushroom, instead of a random root crop. The only animals known to eat root crops are raccoons.

>>5128 Grapes (likewise raisins) can cause renal failure in cats and dogs. It's not even known why. Garlic and onion causes anemia in cats and dogs if they eat enough something to do with red blood cells being damaged iirc but I'm not sure if they would even be attracted from the smell though. You would be surprised how some animals are effected.

>>5136 >Just post whatever guerilla gardening info or results that you have. If you have a list of plants that you know can be successfully grown in a region, and the expected growing time and yield, it will be very helpful. This kind of local knowledge is far more applicable than just reading a gardening book. I just know how to id edible wild plants in my parts of the world, not so much about yield or specific growing conditions. Ive no idea how to structure this information or where to put it. Just putting up a list of names seems kinda weak, but if you think that helps then sure.

>>5142 Wild local plants are the very best ones to plant, because they will grow extremely well in the local climate and rainfall. If you can record as many types of edible plants as you find, then anyone could easily choose which one they want to grow. Just have to also include how to propagate the species from cuttings, seeds or rhizomes. I can provide instructions if you have a list of plant species. The most useful information would be plant name, picture, plant location, planting season, growing time, expected yield, care required, and how to harvest and propagate. You don't need to provide every type of information, but anything is better than nothing and others can provide the rest.

If you want to grow in a pot or bucket, you can use large plastic bags instead. Just fill them with soil and poke a few drainage holes at the bottom. Don't buy anything, especially not containers.

Is it possible to plant cultured fruit trees in local urban forests inconspicuously? Tree saplings are quite pricey themselves. >>5145 Thin plastic film starts falling apart under ultraviolet in under a year. I'd rather not pollute everything around with microplastic flakes that inevitably would fall off one-by-one.

>>5156 I often wondered if you could hide trees "in plain sight", like in the middle of a park with wood chips around it to look official. Like do the people that manage that stuff keep track of what they planted where, or would everyone just assume some other branch of the beurocracy planted it? Have to be careful not to cut any fiber optic lines, that would not be easy to explain.

>>5157 It's easier with sub/urban forests because only bureaucracy happening in them is cleaning up garbage left out by people who go BBQing there. I've asked because I actually seen a grown semi-wild apple tree once, and even tasted sour apple from it, not bad actually. It was planted long time ago by it's looks before hipsters invented guerilla gardening, so it might be accidentally grown from a dropped stub.

>>5156 >>5157 >Thin plastic film starts falling apart under ultraviolet in under a year. You can protect the plastic bags from UV by wrapping them in aluminum foil. >Tree saplings are quite pricey themselves. Don't buy saplings, when you can easily grow them from cuttings for most species. Just find an existing tree, cut a 15 cm section off a branch at the end of season when all the leaves have fallen, then root it by applying rooting hormone or willow water, or just plant the cutting into soil and water. By the beginning of the next season, it should start growing leaves. >I often wondered if you could hide trees "in plain sight", like in the middle of a park with wood chips around it to look official. No one records how many trees there are in a forest, nor in a park. You think they take GPS coordinates every single time they plant a tree? Just plant in a spot, and it will be treated exactly like every other tree in the area. Perhaps disguise it as natural growth from existing trees, by making it look old. Cover the base in leaf litter from area. The taller the tree becomes, the less likely it will be removed, just by difficulty of cutting it.

The most resilient, high yield food crops are amaranth (Amaranthus palmeri), kudzu (Pueraria lobata), Jerusalem artichoke (Helianthus tuberosus). These "weeds" are the plants most resistant to attempts to remove by chemical herbicide or cutting. Amaranthus palmeri has evolved resistance against ALS, atrazine, glyphosate and HPPD herbicides—mesotrione, Huskie, Laudis, Impact, and Armezon. Pueraria lobata and Helianthus tuberosus can regrow and spread from the roots and tubers indefinitely. Yields of Amaranthus palmeri and Helianthus tuberosus are extremely high at 1000 kg/hectare and 16000 kg/hectare respectively. Each of them are perennials that will regrow by themselves each year. Being so "invasive" just proves that they are very well adapted to the local climates, and need no watering or fertilizer except natural rainfall. The combination of these qualities makes these plants perfect for guerilla gardening.

>>5161 >cut a 15 cm section off a branch at the end of season when all the leaves have fallen, then root it by applying rooting hormone or willow water, or just plant the cutting into soil and water That sometimes works for cottonwood and maybe grape vines, but I doubt very much you will have success that way with things like apple trees. Layering might be more successful. >You think they take GPS coordinates every single time they plant a tree? No, but the guy who digs the hole remembers what a bitch it was and if the guy who mows the grass is that same guy who digs the hole and mowing around this new mystery tree is enough of a pain in the ass he might decide to do something about it.

>>5163 >mowing grass in park Letting anglos into gardening was a humanity's mistake.

>>5162 guerrilla gardening is not about destroying ecosystems

>>5164 Yeah, I'm talking about the soykafty 1/4 acre "greenspace" parks you find in cities. I'm sure in a national park or something you could plant a tree anywhere and nobody would ever know, but you're not really changing much seeing as they're already full of trees, eh?

>>5049 The Cubans excelled at guerilla gardening when the USSR collapsed https://www.cityfarmer.org/cuba.html

>>5164 Most countries view grass lawns as a hideous, decadent waste of land, fertilizer and water that could have been used for vegetables instead. >>5166 There are numerous spots where you could fit another tree in that park, for example by the grove of coniferous trees on the left, or by the bushes in the front. It's unlikely anyone would notice, even the landscaper, if the tree fits into the site amd does not block foot traffic. >>5165 Just harvest everything you plant, "invasiveness" just means it grows quickly. Also any organic plant species is far better for an ecosystem than GMO plant monocultures with chemical fertilizers and pesticides, since at least it doesn't kill pollinators and poison the water supply. >>5167 That is an excellent example of what garden everyone should have.

FREE LAWN MOWING AND ORGANIC VEGETABLE GARDENS Contact ### Print flyers with this message and distribute to every house in a neighborhood. Explain to anyone who inquires that you will provide completely free lawn mowing and plant an organic vegetable garden of their choice on their land, in exchange for a portion of harvest. Say you will do all the work, including planting, watering and harvesting. Use the grass clippings for mulch and compost. You should only need to visit once or twice a month during the growing season, perhaps twice a week to water too. In hard economic times, this offer could be quite attractive and popular.

>>5167 I wish countries wouldn't just act out of desperation.

>>5162 Do. Not. Do. This. You'll destroy local ecosystems and biodiversity. Invasive species are a bad thing, use only local plants.

>>5162 is kudzu actually edible??

>>5170 >"invasiveness" just means it grows quickly That's wrong, they are non-indiginous species who outcompetes the indiginous one and this has bad ecosystemical implications as you probably know since you are worried about monocultures.

>>5182 This is correct, but a lot of people don't understand it. For example, >>5162 called amaranth invasive (in quotes to be fair), but amaranth is native to basically everywhere and it is not invasive. I had somebody try to tell me strawberries are invasive (they are native in my area) when what they really meant was that they spread. An implication of this is that nothing is invasive everywhere, the same plant can be just fine in its native area but invasive in others.

>>5181 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pueraria_lobata Yes, kudzu is edible. Kuzuko is a traditional Japanese food made from kudzu root. >>5182 The idea that you shouldn't plant something because it grows too well is rather silly, especially if you were planting it in a garden as a food crop. Do not believe a plant is "invasive" just because a government bans it. >>5183 The only reason amaranth is called invasive is because it grows extremely well in cotton fields, reducing cotton yields and agriculture megacorporation profits. They don't care that amaranth is native to the regions where cotton is grown. If they want to enact stupid and oppressive laws, it's time for a direct action approach. Take an amaranth seed ball and throw them into cotton fields. The amaranth will grow mixed with the cotton plants, and can't be removed with herbicides or mechanical cultivation. The seeds will remain in the fields for several years, and continue to regrow. This is how you can grow food, even if there were to make growing it illegal.

>>5180 >>5182 >>5183 >>5186 Plants can be native and invasive. Take blackberries for example, they are are known almost all over the world and they take over almost every space. Hell in my little corner there is a spot i like to call "sea of blackberries". Invasiveness and locality have nothing to do with one another, nor if its damaging to the ecosystem or not. Flying insects love blackberries, but other organisms do not and they do snuff out other plants.

>>5187 >Invasiveness and locality have nothing to do with one another, nor if its damaging to the ecosystem or not. It does, or rather it should if you go by the textbook definitions except that as >>5186 points out, the corps lobby to have their "weeds" classified as invasive, and their "crops" not classified as invasive, regardless of whether they actually are or not. The lists put out by governments and organizations should be taken with a pinch of salt for this reason, just do some research on your own about how the plants behave in your area before planting them. Note that not all introduced species are invasive, some plants naturalize well because the new environment already has the required ecosystem components. >>5186 I can sort of buy that "native" and "invasive" are human classifications and maybe if everything was everywhere and just fought it out battle royale style it would be fine, but the problem with invasives is often that everything isn't everywhere so the ecosystem to support the new plant isn't there. Is the problem with dutch elm bugs that they "grow too well"? No, it's that they kill all the elm trees. Once all the elm trees are dead they might not grow so well here after all.

>>5186 >The idea that you shouldn't plant something because it grows too well is rather silly You shouldn't plant things that damage your local ecosystem, note that "grows too well" was never in my post but outcompete is, how is that silly? >Do not believe a plant is "invasive" just because a government bans it. Nobody knows which species are legal or not besides people with interest in exotic pets and researchers, usually ecologists. I'd argue most people don't even know what an invasive species is. You're chasing windmills.

I should suggest mushrooms as an indoor crop. Also make use of window boxes and pots, you can at least grow herbs where you are. There's also rooftop gardening, and inner-city gardening projects, if you're at all capable of working with others. Hylocereus undatus and Monstera deliciosa are both edible air plants.

>>5188 >>5189 Even kudzu is only called invasive because it has economic impact on forest products, not because it damages the environment. It was planted in the US by the government for decades from 1930, until it suddenly outlived its usefulness in 1997. It remains a highly useful food crop as it has for centuries. >>Nobody knows which species are legal or not besides people with interest in exotic pets and researchers Most governments outlaw cannabis, coca, poppy and other plants. Their justification of eliminating drugs is laughable. In reality, intelligence agencies and megacorporations manufacture and distribute the majority of those drugs.

>>5195 3 plants used for drugs rather than food. >but you can eat them Yes and yet nobody thinks of them as edible plants the government derezzed from them.

>>5196 The propaganda machine is extremely effective, if the average person does not even realize coca-cola is literally made from coca, or that poppyseed bagels contain opium. Needing permission from the government to grow hemp, coca or poppy just allows megacorporations to monopolize the supply. To them, drug prohibition is just a means to an end. They will continue to invent more reasons to outlaw more plants, to further their grip on the food supply. Yes, they will try to imprison you for growing your own tomatoes without a license, if you let them.

>>5192 Excellent ideas, you could grow aerial plants on walls easily. This would be a good way to massively increase growing area in dense urban cities, just grow plants on the side of the building. Water with a hose from above or the ground. Harvesting will probably need a cherry picker, mobile window cleaning platform, a long ladder or some way to lower the plants to the ground or the nearest window.

>>5192 How would you grow mushrooms indoors without accidentally having mushrooms grow where they shouldnt from spores spreading?

>>5203 If spores was all it took there would be mushrooms everywhere because there are spores everywhere already. You have to make the environment amenable in the places you want them to grow and not so in the places you don't want them.

>>5086 >>5086 >Man, wish my room had at least one window to do this. What's your current situation, what kind of room do you live in?

>>5115 What's your thought on stinging nettle (Brennnessel)? In Germany, they're everywhere and they seem to have decent nutritional value, at least for a leafy green, see https://www.nutritionvalue.org/Stinging_Nettles,_blanched_(Northern_Plains_Indians)_nutritional_value.html

>>5203 generally the hard part of growing mushrooms indoors is making an environment good for the mushrooms while keeping out other fungi. Houses are spore city and if there is something good for then to grow in they will grow in it.

>>5206 You might want to get into mycology. Shrooms afaik don't do photosynthesis.

>>5211 The toxins in bamboo can also be boiled away.

>>5207 Stinging nettles are a traditional famine food, you can easily forage enough leaves to feed yourself in hard times. It is a good idea to keep a few plants around just so you can propagate them when needed.

>>5203 When growing oyster or other mushrooms, you keep the spawn in a sterile growth medium like cardboard, and only let it form fruiting bodies to harvest through small gaps to minimize contamination. It is really hard to grow spores into mushrooms in nonsterile environments, without bacterial spoilage.

Growing shiitake mushrooms can be done outside by inoculating any oak log with shiitake spawn plug. In 6-12 months, shiitake mushrooms will beginning fruiting from the log. This is a really good option if there are large logs lying around. Mushroom farming is excellent compared to greenhouses, because mushrooms do not require sunlight and can overwinter. The yield can be much higher for less energy and heat than plants.

Guerilla mushroom farming oyster, shiitake or other wild mushroom has the potential of being even more stealthy than regular guerilla gardening. Mushrooms grow inside wood or other decaying matter, and cannot be seen until they fruit. The short period of a few days is the only time the mushroom is visible, and it can be harvested quickly to reduce that period further. Mushrooms only need to be hidden for a few days per a year, compared to the entire growing season for plants.

What kind of building do you have? You might try rooftop gardening.

>5229 The goal is to grow enough vegetables to feed one person, around 300 pounds of potatoes, which will need 200 sqft of growing space. Growing on a rooftop would probably be harder than growing on the ground, because of having to transport 200 cubic feet of soil up to the roof, to make 20' x 10' x 1' of growing space.

>>5230 to be honest, putting a lot of material on a roof which wasn't designed to hold it sounds really dangerous. Total weight of the soil would be around 7 tons.

>>5235 That is a very good point, although a roof with a swimming pool of 10 m x 10 m x 1 m can support a 100 ton load of water, which could be replaced with soil. Otherwise, all perlite or high perlite potting mixes could be used instead to reduce weight by 10 to 30 times. 100 cubic feet of soil weighing 7 tons, could be replaced with 100 cubic feet of perlite, weighing 0.23 tons. Also plant in bags or pots instead of planter boxes or plots to use the growing medium more efficiently. It could also be viable to use hydroponics or aeroponics to reduce weight. But the primary disadvantage to using perlite, aeroponics or hydroponics is still cost.

In all seriousness, apart from "cultural shock" what stops us (westerners) from raising some sort of insect species as source of food for ourselves? I see those farms with lots of trays stacked up to the ceiling producing lots of larvae and also their byproducts that can be reused as fertilizer of in biochemistry, imagine having one tucked in your closet between brooms and winter coats giving you enough meat every week. But as far as human consumption goes, water anthropoids like crabs, crayfish and shrimp are nutritious, are accepted in western culture, but also due to the fact that their meat is easily separated from chitin giving you edible white meat and inedible carcass with intestines separated without any concern about contacting disease or eating crab feces and crunching down his legs. They taste pretty much like very gummy fish meat, no big flavor difference. How do larvae, cockroaches, locusts and caterpillars from Asian street markets compare? Do they have to be deep-fried to be barely edible and taste like soil when boiled or simmered with vegetables? My wild guess is that they are not being adopted, because in an outcome of a small accident escape, the population of locusts pretty much culls down all cultured vegetation around them and this might lead to a small eco catastrophe, while a fleeting herd of goats is much more easily manageable to get back into the shed and they won't escape past the wire fence on their lawn.

>>5240 I have heard that fried grasshopper tastes good. Also, fun fact, locust swarms are just an epigenetic change to grasshoppers. Locusts and grasshoppers are actually the same species.

>>5241 I'm not concerned with it's "good taste" so attractive to always "exited" western conspicuous consumerists (hello, third world indoor air quality, early cancers and fuel overconsumption), but rather it's suitability for daily substitute for meat and fish. Is it suitable to replace meat in European dishes, can I make a soup out of this insect or bake it with zucchini like I do with fish beef or poultry? It's compelling to try exotic foods some time, but I would not eat them every day trying to hide foul taste and decomposition toxins in high amounts of spice and frying oil like it's usually done in tropical climates with such kind of food.

not food.. but opium poppies do surprisingly well in city gardens. Does well with full sun and well drained soil I think most people have no idea what they look like and assume they are not opium. Also they are pretty much impossible to remove unless you rip the whole planter up. Also make sure to toss seeds during fall rains as they need a cold snap to really start going for the spring.

>>5240 The biggest problem with any form of food from animals, is that the animals still need to be fed with plants. Animals are not primary producers, they must consume energy from primary producers like plants, and the energy conversion process is less than 10% efficient. Feeding a grasshopper 1000 calories of grain would only yield around 100 calories of grasshopper.

>>5244 Poppyseeds from opium poppies are very common food, found in poppyseed muffins, bagels, curries and many other dishes.

>>5250 It would be nice if you could feed them trash and they could turn it into proteins that don't kill you when you eat them. Something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS9PWzkUG2s He hasn't made a video about this for a while, so maybe the project is dead but it's still an idea that should be further explored.

>>5061 Won't wild animals eat your stuff?

>>5252 If you want to convert trash to food, you need to feed it to a detrivore. A fungi or a compost worm can reliably turn any form of organic waste into human edible food. Portobello mushrooms literally grow on manure, possibly including humanure. Other mushrooms can grow on most plant matter, growing oyster mushrooms on used coffee grounds is the standard, which you can get for free from cafes. Another option is to just use it as compost to grow plants.

>>5182 nature can handle invasive species. Stop your nannying

>>5250 Human stomach is not a combustion chamber. 1000 carbohydrate calories from plant are not equal to 100 protein calories from animal.

>>5285 For the purpose of chemical energy and heat, they are similar to a point, but not equal. For the purpose of muscle-cell synthesis, they are not. It only gets more complicated from here.

>>5285 >>5287 Calories are much more important than protein in a survival situation, 1000 calories from carbohydrates will keep you alive much longer than 100 calories from protein. Digestive efficiency is also higher for carbohydrates.

>>5288 By similar to a point I meant close-ish to a 1:1 match, not close to a 1:10 match. My bad for the ambiguous phrasing.

>>5290 1000 calories of grain would also contain more protein than 100 calories of cockroach. In terms of energy or nutrient efficiency, it does not make sense to feed grain to an animal instead of just eating the grain directly. Even if 100 calories of cockroach were more protein dense than grain, you can always concentrate the grain protein using preparation techniques like making seitan from wheat.

>>5049 Regarding protein, anyone else researched insects? Some really, uh, interesting industries are shaping up: >Black soldier fly larvae - very efficiently convert organic waste into protein, allegedly piss-easy to grow and harvest, completely sanitary (both the larva and any of their waste). Many startups are already breeding them, mainly for animal feed. https://www.eatcrickster.com/blog/black-soldier-fly https://vimeo.com/70515034 This one is a lot less likely to gain traction and would be very hard to DIY, but it's quite interesting and showcases the potential of insect-based foods: >Cockroach milk - protein-rich substance that a certain species called Diploptera punctata feed their young. The milk-like crystalline substance is nutritious and considered a complete food, as it’s a good source of protein, carbs, and fats. Additionally, cockroach milk is considered a complete protein source, as it provides all nine essential amino acids ⁠— the building blocks of protein that can only be attained through your diet. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/cockroach-milk-nutrition

>>5296 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12934-020-1287-6 >Protein yields ranged from 0.20 g to 0.29 g per g of glucose (YP + G) or total sugar (CH + B), with the exception of the B. adeninivorans fermentations which yielded approximately 0.4 g protein per g of sugar Single cell proteins like yeast have a higher glucose to protein conversion yield. 0.29 g of protein produced per g of glucose is extremely impressive. It would yield over 200 g of protein per 1000 calories of grain. Yeast is also a traditional human food used in leavened bread.

It sounds like a fun experiment, load up camping gear, many pounds of seeds, foodstuff, and other essentials, then head out into some remote place and play the game of survival mode. Just add intimate knowledge of the resources of your chosen area, and you will probably have a good run... If only you bring a playmate. Now that is truly living.

>>5308 This is not really for fun, ultimately it is for survival. The future is everyone growing their own food using organic permaculture and manual labor. Do not let them fool you into thinking agriculture megacorporations with their mechanized gmo monocultures with petrochemical fertilizers and pesticides have any place in the future. What they are doing is destroying the world, and guerilla gardening is how one should fight back. You will find that survival is much easier without these megacorporations than with them, because they never existed to help you.

>>5312 While I agree that is an ideal future, and you've got the right idea about most things, there's more evidence suggesting growing food at home will become illegal rather than being encouraged by the state again ever again. Part of reason it would be fun is the high stakes, you could put years of work into your stealth camp and crops only to be ratted out and arrested by a chance encounter, or flyover.

Posted some links in the hydroponics thread that would be of interest >>5320

>>5314 If you look at their efforts in outlawing growing of cannabis, opium and coca, and compare the annual rates of production, you will see that they have completely failed to prevent anyone from growing these plants anywhere in the world. Rates of production will continue to increase regardless of what they do, not even death penalty or ecocidal CBRN weapons will ever stop plants from growing. If you can grow these plants, then you can grow any plant you want.

>>5327 cannabis is a remarkably hardy and easy-to-grow plant, compared to even basic food crops.

>>5328 Cannabis sativa has been cultivated in most regions on Earth for thousands of years, and grows wild without human intervention. Also hempseed is a basic food crop.

>>5312 The knowledge of how to grow food is one everyone should have, but the megacorps will have their place. Industrial farming is the reason so few people need to be farmers and allow the rest of us to specialize in other fields. In the future it will not be everyone growing food where their lawns were, it will be personal automated hydroponic greenhouses or basements.

>>5335 Self-sufficiency and independence are far more important than better specialization in serving a master. Industrial farming is destroying the world because it consumes 5.91 MJ of energy to produce 1 kg of maize, versus 0.18 MJ with traditional farming. This 33x worse inefficiency results in needing to work 160 hours a month just to afford food that only took 2-3 hours of manual labor to produce. Also food quality from industrial farming is soykaf. The more electronics and technology are used in growing food, the less efficient it becomes. Transportation and refrigeration of food can and will be eliminated using local growing of food. But hydroponics suffers from needing a continuous supply of fertilizer solution that must be produced using industrial chemical plants. This makes you a slave to megacorporations. Theoretically, you could pump fertilizer solution through the water supply system to distribute to local hydroponics sites, but producing high purity chemical reagents will still require extensive amounts of energy and petrochemical feedstocks. It consumes even more energy compared to industrial farming than it produces in food. Ultimately, in terms of freedom, you will get the greatest amount from guerilla gardening, followed by organic permaculture.

>>5049 >cashless >id required I expected this to happen years ago for buying computer and such but food? They just care that you don't get to be the one selling it. But that's my usa perspective. You can possibly live off of mostly just nuts. You can wash the tannin out of acorns even (or whatever sour kidney poison is in them, natives of the US did this). That's something to think about. Bums often live on just peanut butter and acorns are about the same nutrition if the acids are removed. You can mostly live on the nuts. Also peanuts are easy to grow I've read. Peanuts wouldn't stick out either anymore than your pic related. They grow underground. Wild blueberries are a thing. I've found some before, but I think bears eat them all usually and birds. I'd prefer to live on wild blueberries and nuts mostly. Kale is high in calcium but would stick out. Even dill weed if you eat enough had calcium. You don't want your teeth to rot. Soy are high in calcium, and a full protein. But would it stick out? Bean stocks do stick out. I guess though if you have enough radishes and such it will eventually equal a full protein. Maybe quinoa, another full protein like soy, would not stick out as much as a bean stock that any idiot would realize is a bum tier crop. Hemp seeds are full but look like dude weed, so that's out too. Then there's buckwheat. Buckwheat might be subtle, but not that subtle. More so than berries at least or melons. But not radish tier. I'm no doctor but if you inhale enough tubers and nuts even without legumes you probably end up with a full protein. I have a dream that I could grow everything in pic related to live on my own, but it's mixed climate and such and would stick way out. I'd have to have a biosphere in some Alaskan Island, that's the dream specifically, but I never wanted to really be THAT alone. Unrealistic. Some giga-vivarium in a cold lonely place would cost and take too much from some bum tier type. But the goal would be to have multiple zones within the structure so you can have all botany in pic related's right side.

>>5413 It's wise to be a couple steps ahead of the ruling elite's evil plans, they are fully willing to engineer famines as one of their systems of control. You can see them burning crops and wasting food during the Great Depression, rather than donate it to hungry people, just to "protect prices". They are even letting food rot in the fields right now. Their latest evil is to require using their proprietary application to buy food from or even enter the market, which requires giving up personal information and using credit cards. Their justification is the pandemic, but they won't willingly give up these measures even after the pandemic. Their goal is to deny you food, in order to force you to obey them, but they can never succeed as long as people grow their own food. Growing peanuts is a really good idea, because it is hard to find, even harder to destroy, and highly nutritious. Even if they spray chemical herbicides indiscriminately, the peanuts will still be edible and viable. It's also a legume, and doesn't require fertilizer. >Wild blueberries are a thing. Every single wild berry grove is extremely valuable, because it represents food and seed that grows without fertilizer, pesticide or watering. You can easily propagate the blueberry plants just by taking small cuttings and planting them. You could also plant additional plant species at that location, because of how hidden it must be. >Kale is high in calcium but would stick out. It's colorful and large, but fairly resilient and high yield. Good for a remote site. Plant cabbage and lettuce instead for stealthiness. >dill weed Nutritious and easy to grow anywhere. Can be grown in shade under trees and shrubs as a herb. >Soy are high in calcium, and a full protein. But would it stick out? Stalk beans are probably easier to hide than bush beans. You could plant a stalk bean around any tree, and the stalks would grow around it like any vine. >radishes Excellent root crop that grows fast and overwinters. Downside is that it propagates by seed instead of tuber. >quinoa >Buckwheat Excellent grains. >Hemp seeds The advantage of guerilla gardening is that they cannot prove who grew or possesses a plant. It doesn't even matter if cannabis is outlawed, just throw some seed balls and harvest wild cannabis. >Some giga-vivarium in a cold lonely place would cost and take too much A pit greenhouse will be much cheaper than importing food, and is easy to construct and requires no inputs to maintain. Just dig a sloped hole and place glass over it, the heat from the ground and even groundwater will sustain the plants.

>>5337 Where's the data breakdown on this energetic analysis?

>>5466 https://www.asean-agrifood.org/energy-inputs-in-different-farming-systems/

>>5474 you forgot to include energy output wasted due to market forces

>>5480 This kind of deliberate, mass food waste is the most hideous example of what megacorporations are willing to do in the name of profit. Although in this image, it might still be possible to save the food, since megacorporations cannot poison it with bleach without poisoning their own land.

Okay so I already posted about this on 4/out/ but since we have a thread here I might as well post it here I love the spirit in this thread, keep it up gais So I had potatoes that were super flabby and had started to sprout. Since it's winter I can't really plant them outside so I was just going to throw them when I remembered this technique I heard about for growing potatoes when you have no land. Basically you put the potatoes in an opaque bag in ~10 cm of dirt, and you wait for them to grow. Once they get over the soil level, you add up more soil and higher the bag. You do this until you can't get higher, then wait a few weeks and harvest everything. It's a good way to get a massive amount of potatoes with no space at all, since they will supposedly grow everywhere in the bag. Don't forget to make holes in the bottom and don't water too much, that would make the potatoes spoil. It's the first time I'm trying this so I'll update if I have any new advice/interesting stuff to say. Since it's winter we got them in a veranda, but in summer you can perfectly do this outside on your terrace or something. Each bag is a different type, one for the fries and one for other types of cooking :D

>>5481 I won't quote statistics regarding tons of biomass nation- and worldwide because I've read different ones, but if you've worked in a restaurant or grocery store anywhere, the amount of edible food that goes in the trash is staggering. That's not counting what didn't make it from farm to warehouse to retail in the first place. In several different cities I helped with food programs for poor and homeless which were sustained by just asking co-ops and chain grocery stores for their throwaways. Finding food every week was the easy part, assuming we had someone available to pick it up at the appointed times.

>>5483 The growbag method is an excellent way to grow potatoes, it requires much less water than growing in pots or the ground. After the potatoes are grown, all you have to do to harvest is scoop the soil out, or dump the soil out of the bag and separate the potatoes. Growing potatoes indoors would be a great way to get multiple crops per year. >>5484 No civilization has ever wasted as much as the modern first world. There is enough food waste to feed every hungry person 6 times over, yet they literally lock the dumpsters or install compactors as soon as they realize anyone is getting free produce or goods from their garbage. Ultimately, waste is self-destructive, you can actually calculate how much time this civilization has left based on how much they waste.

A cautionary tale. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BJXD4iLn6g America, America is fuarrrked.

>>5483 Very interesting. I might give the potato "grow bag" method a shot. I like potatoes, and it sounds incredibly efficient.

>>5493 The government and megacorporations don't want you to grow your own plants. If you do, then you wouldn't need them or their plants anymore. Any list of illegal plants is completely subject to their whims. I would not expect people trying to control you by controlling your food supply to respect human rights or even be honorable. So all of these guerilla gardening techniques are meant to counter any amount of totalitarian oppression, including aerial and mass surveillance, economic impoverishment, curfews, death squads, death camps, gmos, CBRN weapons. Don't buy anything, especially with credit cards. If you grow plants on public land, then there is no way for them to know that you planted it. The only way they can find out that the plant exists is if they follow you, which can be prevented by not going to the plants until harvest and not bringing a phone to the plants. >>5494 Growing potatoes by putting 1 potato in a large plastic bag filled with soil, and then watering once a week for 3 months is within everyone's means and hard to do incorrectly. It doesn't require any tools. You could grow water-intensive crops like beans and nuts with rainfall water only by planting in a soil filled plastic bag and then burying it facing up to prevent drainage. You could even grow during drought or in deserts.

>>5493 Do you think these shops are staked out, or run as honey traps?

>>5484 In third world they just recycle (in true sense of this word) everything and make meatballs out of spoiled regular meat or salads out of spoiled vegetables and sell them in cafes, or in case of grocery stores, in their deli isles.

>>5500 The megacorporations own the store and the factory that produces the equipment. They will exploit any leverage they have over you, as soon as they think there is nothing you can do about it. But the reason they will inevitably fail is because farming is thousands of years older than they are, and people have been producing their own shovels, tills, pitchforks, knives, axes, scythes and sickles since prehistory. Do not believe you need or will even benefit from using "modern" equipment. If you supplied the energy inputs for agriculture using a bicycle generator, then to grow the same amount of maize using mechanized agriculture would take 33 hours of pedaling versus 1 hour with traditional agriculture. >>5501 Traditional foods like vinegar and sourmilk are made from spoiled juice/wine and milk. Fermentation is thousands of years old, and an essential food preparation process that both preserves the food and increases its nutrients. You could say that kimchi or sauerkraut is just spoiled cabbage.

>>5502 Fermentation of food products is literally production of poison and a compromise made by early agriculturists in tropical climates without adjacent knowledge or technology. Acethyc acid is not the most useful household chemical, if possible, grow lemons an extract citric acid. Most late-ripening stuff survives winters in root cellar with no need for fermentation. Organic ethically-made wine is still an equal poison as industrially harvested with slave labor corporate wine.

>>5502 If it's at least not more than 28C/83F it's possible to just air-dry sausages and make lot of fermented foods in earthenware. >You could say that kimchi or sauerkraut is just spoiled cabbage. Spoiled kimchi looks and smells terrible. Both produce "gas" but not foul smell. >>5504 >ethically-made wine Either it has pesticide or there's no wine at all. >slave labor Same thing with the coffee cartel. Wonder why the coffee producers like Ethiopia never improve economically despite coffee being one of the most traded soykaf of all time.

>>5505 >Wonder why the coffee producers like Ethiopia never improve economically despite coffee being one of the most traded soykaf of all time. because all the coffee plantations are owned by foreign megacorps?

>>5504 >>5505 >Either it has pesticide or there's no wine at all. wine maybe not but it's really easy to make cider from random plants, even wild ones. Manzanita cider is deliciously tart if you get the yellow berries, and to make it alcoholic you can add your own yeast or hope your harvest has wild yeast that won't kill you.

>>5504 Cacao and coffee must be fermented to be eaten, soya sauce, miso, tempeh, kombucha and blue cheese are fermented. Fermentation by bacteria is the only natural process that produces vitamin B12. Dose makes the poison. Trace fermentation byproducts and alcohols are only poisonous if you consume an excessive, concentrated dose. Even salt, water and oxygen are poisonous if the relative concentration is too high. >>5505 It's possible to make alcohol from any carbohydrate, like sake or potato vodka. Then you can freeze distill it into wine or brandy by freezing the alcohol and removing the water ice. The remaining alcohol will be concentrated to over 15% based on how much ice is removed. Boil afterwards to remove methanol. >Spoiled kimchi looks and smells terrible. Both produce "gas" but not foul smell. Stinky tofu or Limburger cheese smells worse. >slave labor Enslavement by megacorporations is not a technological or economic issue, megacorporations are so inefficient they require unlimited agricultural subsidies just to operate. It's no coincidence that most food exports are actually produced by Third World farmers with traditional agriculture. Most of those Ethiopian slaves have never even tasted chocolate, all the food is taken from them by foreigners like the Irish Potato Famine. Ultimately, the only way to stop megacorporations from pillaging the Third World is for the First World to stop buying from megacorporations and to grow their own food by traditional agriculture as well.

>>5503 If all the land on Earth were equally divided between every person on Earth, then 148940000 km^2 / 7800000000 people = 0.01909 km^2 = 19094 m^2 = 205535 ft^2 = 4.7183 acres per person Of which 10.9% is arable, 0.00208 km^2 = 2081 m^2 = 22403 ft^2 = 0.51430 acres per person This exceeds the 0.5 acres per person required for a diet with animal products.

You know what would be really cool? If people started to just go out in national forests and spread crop seeds around. Hey, if Johnny Appleseed could do it, why can't we?

>>5512 Now try that same calculation with arable land. Ain't gonna get much potatoes out of the Sahara.

>>5518 If you read the calculations in the last post, it allocates 4.7183 total acres per person, and 0.51430 acres of Earth's arable land per person. Enough land to fully feed every person on Earth. The arable land calculation does not include Antarctica or the Sahara. This doesn't even include the oceans, which can provide more food than the all of the land combined. >>5514 All of the apples in North America were apparently planted by random people hundreds of years ago burying their eaten apple cores along trails. This is how fruit trees are naturally evolved to propagate, their seeds being distributed by those who eat the fruit.

>>5519 I eat the cores and chew the seeds. t. devourer of the worlds

>>5526 Really bad idea to chew apple seeds, they contain hydrogen cyanide which is released when they are crushed. It's an evolutionary defense against the eating of seeds.

>>5527 you'd have to eat hundreds of seeds for them to have a noticeable effect on you. Apricot seeds also have poison in them, yet bitter almonds are edible in moderation

>>5531 It's still a good idea to remove all cyanide before eating by boiling, roasting, fermenting or sun-drying the seeds. There are no health benefits from cyanide, only toxicity, so it should be removed. Food processing is required to make some plants edible.

Some crazy soykaf is about to drop soon, has anyone heard of "Solein"? It's a protein made from CO₂, water, electricity, utilizing a ‘completely natural’ proprietary organism, and with added vitamins and nutrients. https://bigthink.com/technology-innovation/protein-from-air https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2020/09/02/Solar-Foods-prepares-to-commercialise-novel-protein-Solein-in-Q4-2022 >It reportedly looks and tastes like wheat flour - in its' dry powdered format, Solein’s nutritional profile could be compared to that of soy, algae, or some animal-based proteins. It contains 50% protein, 5-10% fat, 20-25% carbohydrates, and Vitamin B. >It's likely to first appear on grocery shelves in protein shakes and yogurt. Solein's manufacturing process is carbon neutral and the potential for scalability seems unlimited — we've got too much CO₂, if anything. >When the company claims its single-celled protein is "free from agricultural limitations," they're not kidding. Being produced indoors means Solar Foods is not dependent on arable land, water (i.e., rain), or favorable weather. >The company is already working with the European Space Agency to develop foods for off-planet production and consumption. (The idea for Solein actually began at NASA.) They also see potential in bringing protein production to areas whose climate or ground conditions make conventional agriculture impossible. >The company expects to commercialise Solein in Q4 2022, around 30 months on from today. This timeline is set by both regulation and construction of the demo-factory. >By 2050, they hope to be providing sustenance to 9 billion people as part of a $500 billion protein market.

>>5049 I'd look into growing Jerusalem Artichokes. Unless you live somewhere super cold, they'll grow like weeds and spread all over the place. I bet they'd take to any spare bit of soil and then come the winter you can go dig them up.

>>5535 It's another single cell protein like chorella, spirulina or yeast. Plants are still more efficient because they don't require industrial bioreactors or electricity.

>>5538 Have decided to plant a mix of potatoes, Jerusalem artichoke, dandelions, blackberries, nettles and kudzu. Planted everywhere, these should be able to grow unattended and produce enough food for one person the first year, while growing exponentially over the next few years. The mix of plants breaks up the profile and makes it impossible to destroy every plant with a single type of tool or herbicide.

>>5535 >completely natural >proprietary organism uh huh >Being produced indoors means Solar Foods is not dependent on arable land, water (i.e., rain), or favorable weather You can grow just about anything indoors. It's just terribly inefficient. >By 2050, they hope to be providing sustenance to 9 billion people as part of a $500 billion protein market. Doesn't every corn or potato farmer "hope" to do the same thing? This just sounds like venture capital bait to me.

>>5077 >The main problem with hydroponics is that it requires a constant supply of chemical fertilizer solution I've had great success just using comfrey water. Basically, you grow comfrey outdoors (it's an unstoppable weed and it's quite pretty, so it should be easy to find places to plant it). Then, you pick leaves or whole stems, and leave them to rot in a bucket of water for a few weeks. When the water goes dark brown, I add it to my hydroponic system. Harvests have been great so far, growing lettuces, tomates and strawberries out of season.

>>5093 >>5076 >>5062 >>5060 Don't listen to this negative naysaying pessimist! Some people in my town just started growing in municipal planters and flowerbeds one day. Then they added a homemade sign explaining what was growing, how to care for it and when to harvest. Soon, these beds were everywhere, and the town council recently gave their 'environmental award' to the anonymous planters. I realise not everywhere will find such positive support, but you never know what you'll start until you try.

>>5674 Using a cover crop to make compost tea to use as hydroponics solution is brilliant. It's an organic, permaculture method to grow using hydroponics, and you can even sterilize the solution by boiling it. >>5675 Beautiful. It shows how a few people doing basic gardening can actually change something that the government would usually have to waste decades on bureaucracy and millions of dollars on corruption to achieve. Anonymity is really important when guerilla gardening, guerillas only succeed with the support of the people. Literally the only ones who hate the idea of everyone growing free food are the ruling elites. The elites are not the ones who go hungry in a famine, and they enforce their military dictatorship by controlling the food supply. They want to enslave you by starving you unless you obey them.

>>5675 isn't this in detroit? i saw a movie about public plantations there it always felt weird to me how little people are growing their own food in america, here in europe basically anyone who lives outside of a city and has a garden grows at least basic stuff like fruits, carots, tomatoes or aromatic plants

>>5779 Well for one, commercially grown food should be a lot cheaper here. Also I think in more densely populated areas living in the country is more of a luxury, so you don't have people living there just to save money with no interest in "country life". That said, almost everyone I know who lives in the country does have at least a small garden, so you may have a false impression.

I found some pot growing in some municipal planters near my neighborhood in a city I used to live in. Some was in a few of those turnabouts, and some were in the planters you find on main streets. The unusual thing is they didn't have a strong smell, so at first I was doubtful, despite the distinctive leaves. However, I kept checking and sure enough a few sprung some buds eventually. I was interested, so I harvested a few and took them home, dried them. When I ground them up, the smell became much more apparent. Smoked some of it, pretty decent. Not the best quality, but it did the job. I checked on them regularly over the rest of the year, and somebody apparently harvested the buds occasionally. Eventually, they died out and were removed. The following year, I found somebody had again planted some. I took a bud here and there in exchange for my implicit silence, and left a note of encouragement on a few of them. However, a few months into the growing season, the city discovered some of them, and began systematically searching them out and destroying them. Never seen them since, which was a real shame.

>>5779 I don't think I understand this post. People in the rural US do exactly the same. The community garden programs are in cities.

>>5779 Fuel and food is extremely cheap in the US, fuel is cheaper than 50% of the cost in Europe. This is because of the petrodollar, which is one of spoils of war. The average American does not need to produce their own food, even though they have more than enough empty grass lawns to do so, when they consume 20% of the world's exports. This just leads to Roman Empire style decadence, and will end the same way. >>5784 The most important part is that no one got caught, despite growing in a blatant location, so they can just replant in another, more concealed location. Anyone could have saved the seeds and replanted more of their own.

>>5792 >This just leads to Roman Empire style decadence, and will end the same way. This really spoke to me. I see a lot of reasons for the American Empire giving into decadence and degrading. They're clinging on, but their days are numbered. Remember, Rome wasn't built in a day, neither was the USA. The same goes for their fall...

>>5795 The official US doctrine is bread and circus, feeding the population cheap and flavorful junk foods filled with chemical additives, and distracting them with endless mind-rotting mass media entertainment. All this funded by foreign slaves imported to do menial labor, and rampant neocolonial militarism on resource rich countries. They even managed to poison the water supply and air with lead. All justified by the thinnest facade of a "democracy" that is becoming a farce. It never had to be this way, though. No one had to become fat, lazy and stupid. People in the US used to grow their own food and do their own skilled labor in 1940s.

https://trashwiki.org/en/Guerilla_gardening

>>5203 Speaking of mushrooms growing in unexpected places, learning basic mushroom id can reap the a seasonal treat occasionally, for no effort other than to pay attention, even in cities. You'll be surprised by ubiquitous they turn out to be once you start looking for them. Mushrooms like the Shaggy Mane for some reason seem to gravitate towards disturbed soil and grass lawns.

>>5223 >>5224 Mushrooms that feed off dead wood are really cool since they effectively turn non-food into delicious food.

>>5206 >What's your current situation, what kind of room do you live in? I live in a decaying, humid, and full of dust 40 years old room that was built with the purpouse of hanging meat in the 80's. The roof is full of leaks, too, so i have to be careful during rain days because my room has electronics in every corner, plus my bed, wich also gets wet thanks to those roof leaks. During rainstorms half of my room gets foolded with water because water doesn't have a way out of my room. I have narcicistics parents, that's the reason of me living in this room. Someday i'll leave to never be near them again

>>6639 Why don't you put a tarp up to collect all the water and slide into a cheap bucket in the corner to deal with that?

>>6640 >Why don't you put a tarp up to collect all the water I can't get something like that without my parents noticing and releasing their nuclear psycological weapons against me. Also, i'm a soykafty drug user since i was a kid to escape the hell they make me live, and this addiction took everything from me, so now that i'm trying to recover from that, the only thing i have of value in my life is a bit of sanity and a bit of good health. going outside means risking getting covid, so it's not an option at all until i get vaccinated, else i'm risking loosing both my health and the little amount of sanity i have left, and without those things i won't ever be able to escape from here, so i just resist in silence until i get enought resources to escape with a solid amount of resources, because being homeless isn't an option that would take me too far in life. i'm sorry about the rant .

>>5049 >Trying to grow a secure source of food that can't be stolen, destroyed, embargoed or poisoned. Identified the best option is growing root vegetables in unmaintained public land, like forests. >Any suggestions on site locations or alternate crops? It's hard to say without knowing your location, but ideally you would be growing something no one else knows is food. Dandelions, dock, arrow root, jerusalem artichoke, and groundnut (apios americana) all produce fairly large edible tubers. Additionally these are all weeds in my area and require virtually zero care beyond keeping the grass cut when they are first coming up in spring. If you live somewhere with lots of small scale farmers you're going to have a harder time. On the property I currently live on there are many wild dandelions, docks, grape vines, and blackberries, but the berries need protection to not be eaten by wildlife, and likely would give away your plans. I also planted twenty or so jurusalem artichokes last year, and have already seen that much come back up from two plantings, I expect to have much more than a hundred by the end of the year for replanting. I'm a bit too busy to read through the whole thread here, but I thought I would just through these out there.

>>6641 That seems like a terrible situation lain. I'm assuming you've already thought everything through, but it's a shame you couldn't move in with your grandparents or just literally anyone else.

>>5166 That garden looks nice but it would look nicer if it had more flowers and some fruiting trees

>>6642 >but the berries need protection to not be eaten by wildlife, and likely would give away your plans. I dont know where you live but around here you have more often than not blackberries infesting everything. I use them as fences and food source. >>6641 I think you should take the chances and get out there, do your thing, it seems a lot of your problems are bottled up and feed into more anxiety.

>>6643 >it's a shame you couldn't move in with your grandparents or just literally anyone else Sadly i'm the only person on the family that knows my parents narcicism, they only put their masks off when no one from outside the house is around, so for any of my relatives they're just a nice and friendly couple; all the screaming, soykafshow and backstabbing is well hidden from anyone except me and the few friends i have irl. Sadly none of them have a place of their own where i can be for a while. I used to be outside this house, in the library all day and only coming back for sleeping, but with corona i'm trapped here since the begginings of 2020. But well, everything i've been trought will be just a bad memory some day, i'm sure of that. Plus once i get my own place i'll start growing my own food, wich is nice (i love eating nutritious things and that's not something that happens here often) pic related, to stay a bit on topic with guerrilla gardening: once i had the suprise of discovering a tomato plant growing in an old can on the backyard... probably some cool bird brought the seeds. So, i moved the plant into a bucket with more dirt, and hide it in a part of the backyard that isn't visited often (my parents would've destroyed the plant probably), so i guess this can be considered guerrilla gardening? some bird planted it but i took care of it for months and got some small but good tasting wild tomatoes

>>6648 I'm afraid nothing I could say could help. I hope your freedom finds you soon... I grew tomatoes for the first time last year, and I really enjoyed it. Mine were much smaller than yours though, closer to cherry tomatoes. Make sure to post pictures of your garden when you get out.

>>6650 >I hope your freedom finds you soon. Thank you for the kind words :) I have the luck of having a personality that doesn't allows me to give up on life, so, i'm sure i'll get out of here as soon as i have enought resources to keep a roof under my head and a plate of food on my table. >I grew tomatoes for the first time last year, and I really enjoyed it. Mine were much smaller than yours though, closer to cherry tomatoes. Nice! usually cherry tomatoes have more flavor, wich is very nice and compensates their small size. I kept the seeds of the tomatoes i grew so i'll probably grow another plant as soon as summer arises here (around december) >Make sure to post pictures of your garden when you get out. Of course :)

>>5413 >dill update Do not try this. My stomach hurts now.

>>6848 How much dill did you eat?

>>6850 Just a few ounces. Maybe it's just me but you should not eat them by the pack per meal when me if so.

Glad this got bumped. Summer has kicked in good, so im sorta not doing much right now. I have been planting mint in lots of moist/swampy places, its a great way to get lots out with little in. Also i have seen some huge ass mustard plants, can only recommend those to everyone. Tried to plant my own but those got eaten and the ones around here are too huge to fit in my bags. Hasnt been going as good as i had hoped this year, but i think i can catch when its a little less hot and dry. Im curious to see how many berries i can collect soon, the weather has been good so i suppose there will be a good yield.

>>5049 An issue that arises now is lockdowns, travel bans, and quarantines. If you're growing off site, reaching the site should be a paramount consideration today. Potatos, onions, and similar root crops can be interspersed in undergrowth and along road cuts, where they can get sun. Tending crops is much more work, so seek places that have nominal year round moisture. I've lost onions and potatos from summer drought in the PNW. The Lain that suggested wild plants and foraging is spot on. Here there are plentiful herbs, berries, and even some native roots and trees that are edible and choice. Learn your local flora, and incorporate that as much as you can. Wild plants are entirely cryptic, and such a garden is unlikely to be seized in the event of Holodomor class political disruption.

>>5136 Deer eat almost everything I have ever tried to grow. They mow potatos and tomatos to the ground. They even eat narcissus. All of these are purportedly toxic. Slugs and snails eat onion and garlic. Cannabis is doomed innawoods. This has been my primary hurdle growing guerilla gardens.

>>7168 Oh no, you just discovered the reason for why humans started cutting down forests in the first place.

>>7168 Dont be so cynical lain. Yes its true critters eat a lot, i lost many crops and plants to bugs, grasshopers, snails, mice and probably even rabbits, even fairly toxic ones. But thats part of the game, but there plants that they do not like and grow to redundant numbers. I have noticed that the mint i planted seems fairly untouched, i almost lost everything else except for the few wild berries that were not there before have survived well. And despite what one may think, pests dont grow and consume in infinite numbers or proportions of plant mass available. >Cannabis is doomed innawoods. Gonna give it straight to you, thats a load of horescrap and im talking the good kind, which if some of you are inclined to is a good fertilizer, if you dont mind rooting in soykaf, or cow soykaf as my friend once did at his place. Which is a utterly fuarrrked up story in and off itself, but he grows some of the finest stuff on a tiny peace of not really well maintained land he doesnt even really own. Now i have seen some guerilla growers, right down my turf which btw, are growing like 8 plants, all female, and i had give mine the gift of freedom too cuz of 5 star asshole idiot neighbors. Those are except for a few insect bites fantastically great for wild plants and i have seen and am growing wild ones from poland, i had them into too small pots for way too long, they grew enormously despite almost utter soykaf weather for everything except water plants. You can take countermeasures, like hedges, berries and roses of most kind work well and grow very fast if you make sure they frow the right way. Also mind your geographic properties, is it hard to reach from just the ground, can you fortify it somehow? I also can tell you just recently i saw a huge ass, and i mean fuarrrking huge ass ganja literally small tree in a public type garden, its utterly unbelivable.

>>7169 To make wooden structures and farm wheat and legumes in direct sunlight?

>>7194 This but also to keep the animals away.

update for >>5483, almost a year later growth stopped in late winter (bc of cold) and I had an aphid invasion that killed the branches at some point in late Spring. After that I brought the bags outside and they made fat ass branches again. I'm going to harvest them soon and I'll post the results ITT, not sure the early potatoes (the ones around the bottom) will still be edible but I'm sure we'll get some interesting stuff. ------------- 2nd pic is yesterday's tomato harvest. Summer was cold here but hopefully we have a nice back-season here so the tomatoes are still giving a lot. We have this technique here where, when we eat tomatoes, we dump all the seeds into our composter. In early/mid spring, we then dump a whole bunch of the compost on the soil, and we usually have a ton of tomatoes this way (3rd pic). I kinda want to try it outside of my garden and it seems like a cool guerilla gardening thing to do, so if anyone else wants to try that'd be interesting.

>>7388 also we have a fig tree growing in the garden, but according to some tree guy it "won't give fruits" (unsure if it's true or simply business technique to make us buy a fig tree) so I think we'll just go and put it in a forest somewhere

Has anyone here ever tried to deploy seed bombs with drones and RC toys? Any successful attempts? I suppose that you can deploy the seeds alone, without any mud balls.

>>5049 sunflowers my friend

Very interesting thread. However, there are a few problems. If the goal is really to feed yourself exclusively on guerilla gardening, you have a problem. A common number I see in my country is that you need 2000kcal per day for a single person. Really, this will depend on your age, your height, your weight, and your physical activity (I'm much above that). For the sake of simplicity I won't talk about other dietary requirement such as minerals, vitamins etc(and the RDA are often criticized as being way too low so it's even more complicated). In a year, it's 730,000 kcal. 100g of potatoes is about 73kcal. So to reach that in potatoes, it's literally a thousand kg of potatoes. And the thing is, potatoes are one of the most productive plant you can grow in term of calories per space. To grow that, if you get the good yield (and trust me, you need some knowledge, good soil, etc) of 2.5kg per square meter, then 400 sq meter would do. Obviously, growing that many potatoes at the same place is the best way to reenact the Irish famine, and eating only potatoes would also be a good way to reenact the discovery of scurvy, pellagra, etc. 100g carrots is about 36kcal. For onions, it's 30kcal. For cabbages, about the same. Good luck eating those 6kg of onions. On the bright side, you will never ever get sick as nobody will ever approach you after eating them. While wild plants have more nutrients, they are also harder to find, although some literally have colonies (stinging nettles are my personal favorite) growing around so it's easier to harvest, but the calorie content is usually not very high so you'll need a lot of space. Usually, high calories are in root and seeds, some fruits too. And then, we also have the problem of pollutant. You wouldn't want to eat something which was literally pissed on by some animal (some disease and maybe some parasite spread like that). Heavy metals are usually best in disc shops, but you should avoid them in your body. Pesticide are just biocide, which cause all kind of funky problems: sterility, miscarriage, cancer, death, etc. So I don't want to be mister jackass, destroying the idea etc. What I mean is that growing food is incredibly easy. Growing food to feed yourself is another level. So you probably won't be able to feed yourself entirely out of guerilla gardening. There are several options available: 1) Growing at your place - Aquaponics and hydroponics are a possibility but really inefficient with energy (although aquaponics might be better). Someone mentioned the use of cornfrey water, which is very smart; I'm sure other herbs such as nettle could work really well too. Or even a mix of herbs, for a variety of nutrients. However I never tried those two, so perhaps there's some good way to lower the energy consumption. If you have something on that I'm interested, although I won't try it for now. - Growing mushrooms. They can be quite easy to grow, I recommend oyster mushroom to begin with. However they won't give you a lot of energy, but can be great in term of nutrients and medicinal properties (and I'm not talking about the chakra-opening mushrooms). They are also a good way to recycle dead matter as said before. But be careful about the matter you grow them on, as they accumulate toxins quite easily. - Using any kind of space you have available, any sun spot. Some people grow a lot of their food on 4sq meter of balcony. Depending on how much sun you have, it might limit you to leafy vegetables or allow you to grow plants with fruits, a bit of grain like corn, etc. 2) Foraging - As someone wrote here, wild food are incredibly overlooked. For instance, you can eat stinging nettle. It also have a ton of medicinal properties, you can also make textile from it, and tincture for clothing. It's awesome for making compost, nettle water, etc. Elder is another great one. Obviously, be careful about what you pick, be sure you know what it is, and know which plants should not be eaten often. One example would be cornfrey, basically it contain a chemical that your liver turns into a toxin that destroy it over time. Sorrel contain oxalic acid, so don't eat it too often, etc. 3) "Contracts" with people who do have lands - Someone else wrote here that you could farm on someone's land, and you pay them with some of the harvest. 4) Growing animals/insects - You will need to feed them too, but they can provide things that are much harder to get from vegetables (either complete proteins, or some vitamins like B12). 5) Hunting/fishing - Quick way to get proteins and decent amount of calories, but problematic because of permits, and also pollutant and the like. Basically, get food from every place you can possibly get it. And so, guerilla gardening really is some kind of permaculture. You need something that is in a system that maintain itself, something that require next to no maintenance, and that is resistant to pests (humans are included). So, invasive are a great choice (jerusalem artichoke seems to spread easily). I highly recommend perennials, so you don't have to plant each years Also, some ornamental plants are not only medicinal, but edible (rose hips, barberries). I have no experience with kudzu, but if you can eat the leaves, well the hardest work will be harvesting. If you are growing tomatoes in a park, you might never eat any of them yourself, except if you happen to grow a green variety. Most people have no idea of the amount of tomatoes varieties: small, medium, big; green, red, yellow, black... Green would be a good choice as to the uninitiated they'd look immature. A final note. There are a TONS of plants, especially common flowers, which have medicinal properties and are edible. In fact, quite a few plants that are grown as ornamental are really great as medicine. Since very few people know about it, having those plants might just seem like having some decoration, when in fact they are medicine (obviously, don't harvest them from roundabout, they are sprayed and exposed to tons of toxins). Some plants have psychoactive effects if taken the right way, and are even legal to possess and grow (for now, so please don't be a retard and get those plants derezzed). Few people know about them. So if a lot people have no clue about that glorious ganja growing in the park, some obscure psychoactive plant have no chance of being removed. Obviously be careful. I don't give a soykaf if you try to sue me because you lot a kidney (I'm behind 7 proxies, good luck), but I don't want a fellow lainon to die. Plants are powerful, can interact with meds, etc. Some kids might try smoking datura, but from what I've heard, it's a really good way to fly so high you never come back. Be careful, but experiment. Read, try things. You WILL fail. That's how you will succeed. Especially with guerilla gardening: some retards deciding to take out his frustration on some random cabbage, some wannabe batman destroying someone else cannabis plot (and not realizing he's forcing the grower to then buy from and feed cartels). That makes it a bit more difficult though, as even if in theory 400sq meter of only potato would work from a calorie standpoint, you have to take loss into account, and I'm sure they are higher with guerilla gardening. Plus it can be harder to have good soil for your plants.

>>7457 Oh boy and I didn't know a tenth of all that three years ago Hopefully you find the long read worth it

Okay so I kept thinking of this thread. If you're aiming to protect yourself, and survive from what someone else refer as "holodomor" style event, growing your own food supply will be really difficult. Why ? The holodomor was due to criminally insane food management. If you were a farmer, you had to give ALL the food you produced to the state. If you were to go again in your field, and pickup the remaining grains to feed yourself or your family, you would be punished by death. The great famine caused by the great leap forward (unfortunately no one knew that there was a precipice just in front of them) lead to a lot of people dying, and people being so desperate for food that they ended up eating tree bark. So in the case of growing guerilla style, it might be really difficult to have plants left to eat, if people start to literally act like goats and eat every single thing that looks remotely edible. Since food supply were either never replenished, or stolen from the state or whatever crazies of the time, you'd need to be good at conservation of food, and also hiding it. It doesn't matter if you managed to save up a winter worth of supply, if said supply is taken from you to serve the latest mass psychosis. This brings up another problem: if everyone in your community looks like they just came out of death camps, skinny, starving, and you appear too healthy, then you will be suspicious as fuarrrk. So you'd need a strategy to don't appear too healthy, while not dying. When ones eat much less than what he need in a day, he will start losing weight: fat, muscles, are all used up by the body progressively, to meet up its energy requirement. So you'd need to eat enough so that you don't go straight into starvation state, but it's not the only issue. Eating less, also mean you'd get much less of vital elements such as minerals, vitamins, and amino-acids. A good strategy would be also to have a supply of supplements at the ready, so that you don't start having other problems associated with famine: scurvy and pellagra are some of those problems: we can't produce our own vitamin C for instance, and we struggle to produce some other vitamins. Minerals and vitamin are not the only essential elements you need: some fats are essential for your health, such as omega 3 and omega 6. Some amino-acids can't be made by your body and so need to be obtained from various vegetables, although it's easier to get enough of those form animal sources. Of course, we all have some stock of various vitamins in the body, so you might survive without getting those from your food, for a while. But needless to say, such a situation should be as short as possible to avoid long term effect on your health, or even shorter term ones such as death. The more you learn about self-sufficiency and nutrition, the better your chances at survival in such situation.

>>7424 I havent even developed my seed bomb program yet, but yeah this would be a fantastic way to deploy, especially on rooftops and hard to reach places. >>7457 Very good analysis, obviously guerilla survival will require a plan, you need to know well what is where and how to get it, just scavageing for herbs wont work long. My plan is to scout and mark locations of nearby wild plants and gps mark paths, locations and whatnot in such a way that i can keep track of how much expenditure in terms of movement i need. Obviously if you want to actually live off it, it will take a very long time to prepare to those conditions, but with a bit of smarts and elbow effort it can be done, not to mention even a little produce is a little that makes you less dependent on the system. >>7492 This isnt the 19th century anymore, people have become unhealthy, lazy stupid slobs with a dependency complex on the state, theyre gonna tear each others heads off way before such a scenario. That being said, obviously you cant grow stuff in plain sight, soykaf like this is already on the horizon. People arent going to scour the woods in search for food, not for long before they hit the wrong plant or go wrong some other way and dont come back. You can always defend your camps with passive defences, like pikes, trip wires, tiger traps and whatnot. Another thing you can do is seed poisonous plants and put some inbetween your crop, maybe some poor sucker who tries to raid you stuff eats some of them and gets a nice suprise later on. This scenario is not what im concerned about, what im worried more about is that the deforestation and destruction of nature keeps going on as it does and there will be nothing or nowhere left to grow. Also remember to make stashes and stuff incase soykaf hits the fan or you just need some extra resources.

>>7492 That's not how farming collectives operated in the USSR. The kolkhoz or collective farms were run by peasants. Peasant doesn't mean poor in this instance though peasant is a social class that existed at the time and included rich people. They were paid employees of the state given their share of food and farming equipment and money. https://www.britannica.com/topic/kolkhoz The famine during that time was from concern over peasants hoarding food for proffit to take advantage of a famine that was going on in a few regions of the USSR and it was important to distribute the food to save the starving people at large from this famine. Stalin reacted harshly but not without reason. Only a couple years after the farming collectives they were allowed to grow garden plots around their homes. The cause of the famine around this time was from overly rappid development of farming which is similar to the cause of the dust bowl in the US.

>>7493 I had that idea a while ago, of planting something that looked edible but would instead make you destroy your toilets, so that thieves would learn a lesson. There are quite a few poisonous plants, and if you plant edible flower, then having those poisonous plants around will only make it harder for raiders to identify what to steal... especially if you sometimes "harvest" those poisonous plants (without consuming them obviously). However that will require a good knowledge of those plants and the edible one; you don't want to fall in your own trap. Also some poisonous plant are dangerous to the touch, and can cause huge burns, while being less obvious than thorny plants (giant hogweed being a good example) as a defensive hedge. Someone mentioned the holodomor, so I answered in that context; obviously that time has passed, and so new things, positive and negative are to be expected. However be careful with thinking that if soykaf hit the fan, it will be every man for himself. Obviously, looting and raids will happen, but humanity rose out of mud puddle by cooperating, so you should find a cooperative community. Even if you manage to survive on your own, you will probably get sick, hurt, or even need some rest. As for deforestation and destruction of nature, you might already know about permaculture, regenerative agriculture and all the other things people are doing on their own around the world.Just starting to work on things on your own, you can start having a positive impact, and inspire others, who might well start getting involved. If you ever own land, you could aim for a place where the environment is damaged, and gradually help it recover (obviously avoid place where such destruction is an ongoing process, like somewhere getting polluted by heavy metals, pesticides, etc, as you will be fighting an uphill battle). Each little project done by someone is another seed that can germinate and help nature (and ourselves) survive.

>>5240 >Giving you enough >Meat You are really weak, aren't you?

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>>5190 >>5191 ((Meyer)), ((Katz)). Clever long-winded plagiarism, another way to make money without work.

>>5060 fuarrrk you bro I saw a tree I ate it's fruit. I do what I want and live by the law of nature: what you gon do to stop me

>>6642 which way soever they be dressed and eaten, they stir and cause a filthy loathsome stinking wind within the body, thereby causing the belly to be pained and tormented, and are a meat more fit for swine than men.

new year, new work! Seeing how fuarrrked the food price is in europe rn, the garden might prove way more financially interesting than last year, so I'll try to put more effort in it. I haven't finished trimming the apple tree which kinda is like kicking dead whales down the beach, I'll try to get it done this weekend. Haven't planted the tomatoes either, so that's next on the list. We managed to get quite a few butternut/squashes crops from the compost, and I'll spread some on the ground to get tomatoes from it too (reminder lainons, put all your seeds in the compost and spread some dirt in spring the next year, you're very likely to get easy vegetables from it) I'll try to get the strawberries back in shape after that

if y'all are gonna do soykaf outside, wherever you are, please read up on local indigenous peoples' ways of managing nature. there's a lot of good ideas there, that, in many cases, have been cultivated over millenia. we can learn from that, and use our own careful thinking and observation to figure out what might make sense for the current situation >>5059 >seed bombs owo

I cracked the jackpot, i found an old abandoned animal shelter in the middle of fuarrrknowhere, including keys. Not only is there plenty of land and other resources, but it is fenced off too and there are already so many trees and herbs and all sorts of things there. I planted potatoes and plants from the mustard family, which is half wild and grows nicely. Friend of mine said if i have found them(as i did)its not breaking and entering if someone should find me, but the probablity of that is so low i dont think anyone will ever find it. This is gonna be one awesome year lains.

Temperate euro climate, I've been sticking onions in every park, verge and waste ground I can find. Not planning to harvest any time soon but hopefully if SHTF they'll have propagated and there'll be plenty to forage all a round the area.

>>8616 It still may count as trespassing perhaps though. Hard to say.

>>8635 Out of all the people I knew in the US and Canada who planted gardens on vacant lots in different cities, none of them were ever charged with anything. A lot of them lost their gardens eventually but if someone wants to take the plot back and build condos on it, a bunch of tomato plants isn't going to slow down a bulldozer much.

Hey lain, I've found an area that I'm considering growing root vegetables on, and it's about 5 metres away from a river, which is a couple of metres lower than the growing area. (see pic) Will the drainage be enough? Will I need to bring general-purpose compost if the ground is too clay-like? Is ground acidity/alkali a concern, and if so how would I go about testing or fixing it, or would a better solution be just finding a new area? Finally, would you recommend going out at night or in the early morning when it's still fairly quiet but you can see without lights which could draw attention?

>>8589 >please read up on local indigenous peoples' ways of managing nature anon, not everyone here is a mutt) I am the local indigeneous person. Besides, old knowledge isn't always good knowledge. When it comes to nature, it all really depends on your goal. Do you want to preserve it? Do you want to grow food? Do you want to make it livable? All of those require very different tactics Also, fyi, most of the vegetables we cultivate come from other continents, so plant-specific knowledge is not always reliable >>8619 >Temperate euro climate, I've been sticking onions in every park not sure where you live, but in western europe we have Allium ursinum (bear's garlic) which is really everywhere and the leafs are very good! >>8699 >see pic

>>5806 Even if old reply, I'm curious. How likely is it to find actual safe to eat mushrooms? Anyone with past experience with them?

>>9409 I'm sure its something that varies by region, maybe some places you're just out of luck. But everywhere I've lived and looked into it, you definitly can find decent edible and safe mushrooms if you know when and where to look, and some basic points to check to be sure you're safe. While I've never made a big sport out of it I've gone out a couple times with friends who do, and its really not that hard. Look into it for your region, might even be classes somewhere.

>>9409 Generally speaking most known mushrooms are not poisonous. However, you want to avoid any edible mushrooms with poisonous lookalikes especially if both grow in your region. So no field mushroom or no parasol mushroom for example. Many require spore prints to identify but ive never successfully gotten a proper print to date the three times I tried all failed so it's not easy as it sounds.

>>9409 i know in my country you can bring your shrooms to any pharmacist and they'll tell you which ones are edible this is me adding random junk so that the answer when I try to post this will stop being "flood detected post discarded', thank you for your understanding and have a great day Okay it still didn't work so I guess I'll talk about my tomatoes. I planted them too late this year so I only got tomatoes from July to October. With the massive drought this summer, I didn't get many at all sadly. And now some wild ones are starting to grow just to piss me i guess Now I'm mostly hyped about my free palestine artichokes, waiting for the leaves to die and then I'll start gathering them

Guys what's something (other than mushrooms) that one could grow low light environemnt like a forest? I'm in an atlantic north climate in Europe. I guess I could multiply some berry bushes i just got but that won't be something for after next year at the earliest. >>5503 I remember some youtuber testing that potato method with buckets stacked on top of eachother. Maybe it could be done differently but his conclusion was basically that it really wasn't worth it. There wasn't much of an increase in potatoes.

>>9548 >wut to grow in low light there's a lot of things, and a lot of things that like more light might do alright, worse but alright, in low light. I assume you also have to contend with freezing weather, perhaps snow ? Potatoes and other root vegetables can be good. Cabbage, some types of herbs. If there's a decent looking local garden store you might go there and ask for suggestions, for they should understand your particular challenges. If it is actually dark on the ground this is quite different than the forrests Im used to, where most peices of ground spend at least a bit in direct sunlight during a clear day.

>>7424 local gov't near me is taking public parks and turning it into quite nefarious things. i'd love to know more about this if anyone could chime in. i'd like to make it hard for them to develop these lands without disrupting the ecosystem. i'm thinking kudzu, bamboo, dandelions, etc.

>>9548 I have actually wondered about using mirrors or white paint to grow discreet medical plants whilst getting optimal sun, can anyone confirm if a simple mirror box could do it?

>>5049 >It should easily be possible to grow enough potatoes to feed yourself and others, indefinitely for free. Worst case scenario is someone cuts the plants down, but it's not really hard to plant more at other locations Do you really believe that? Growing potatoes with minimal effort is only possible in certain areas and only in certain years depending on the moisture. You need to check on them regularly, which will be a pain in the ass if you want to hide them. Also just to feed one person, you need a few rows of 20 meters. No chance hiding that. My grandfather had a big 20x15m field of potatoes and Carrots in his garden in northern Germany as well as tomatoes on the wall of his shed. He spent a lot of time there and it was next to his house. Yet this was only supplemental. They bought a ton of basic stuff for cooking anyway depite all of that

>>11045 >medical plants hang yourself nigger >>9673 kudzu is a bitch and you can't control it if its in a region where it will do well. Can't answer your question without knowing where you are, but look around for local nasty plants man. poison ivy, burrs and nettles. If your timeline is short you're in a bind, and power tools will make all your work just about irrelevant anyway, unless the development we're talking about is just a homeless camp permitted to exist.

>Trying to grow a secure source of food that can't be stolen, destroyed, embargoed or poisoned. One strategy might be to read a book on foraging wild plants, and then go out and help them grow. That way, you're not only helping yourself but also anyone else who forages for food. For example, spread dandelions, which make excellent greens, or stinging nettle, which produces fibers that can be spun into yarn suitable for clothing. As far as a bulk food, ditto potatoes, but keep in mind that sweet potatoes are more nutritious. Hemp also grows like crazy wild. The seeds can be eaten and/or processed for oil. The fibers can be used for yarn (clothing), twine for fish nets, rope, and paper. If you're not a vegetarian, all you need to catch fish is some fising line, a hook, and a worm. Just use a stick for the "rod". The more people are able to forage, the less dependent they will be on corporations and governments.