Respiratory mask

I know corona is small like 0.1 - 0.2 microns. Was wondering if I can use anything to lower my paranoia going to the store and stuff. Can I just use a scarf with many folds?

They make masks for painting cars and such that are pretty damn impressive. I painted a frame once indoors with one on, and at the end I decided to take it off just for ѕһіts and giggles, see what it was like. The fumes were literally so strong I couldn't take a breath without spasming. Put it back on and I couldn't even smell the solvents anymore. It's incredible. Viruses are small, but xylene or acetone molecules or w/e are even smaller. It also has a seal so strong that when you cover the inlet valve with your hand, it just is like kicking dead whales down the beach closer to your face until there's no room left inside it and you can't move your diaphragm a single bit more. Not even a tiny bit of leakage. Block the exhale valve (it's an independent one-way check so you aren't breathing through the filters both ways) then not a bit of breath escapes that way either. Feels like a legit gas mask. I was floored to be honest. 3M does make some good stuff and I feel like a salesperson whenever I show it to anybody. I usually am very critical of tools, too. All that said, nothing's gonna work perfectly. And viruses can start to fill up the filters. UV light or boiling in water and drying might work to fix that. Or just set aside and wait for a couple days which is about as long as they supposedly last outside of the body. But honestly those concerns only apply to somebody constantly moving through infected air and infected people, i.e. medical personnel or people on the NYC subway perhaps. For going to the store with a bit of everyday paranoia (I respect the paranoid and am one myself, no judgement) these do just fine. Way better than an N95 mask, that's for sure.

If a mask isn't an option, I've seen five or so folds of good, thick cotton t-shirt fabric or vacuum cleaner bags promoted as an improvised option. Note that the 0.2 micron measurement or whatever is not a binary; something with say 1 micron holes will still catch the majority of pathogens, and it's kind of about dose at some point. Even without antibodies, the immune system can take care of a very small amount of viruses. It takes a certain amount to get you sick. So a bunch of layers of fabric is better than nothing. It does a much better job of keeping your much larger particles of saliva from coughing and such from spreading the disease to others; however that also plays an advantage, because people assume you're infected most of the time and keep a further distance/hold their breath. So that's a factor.

>>4239 *when you cover the inlet valve, it just ѕuсkѕ closer to your face until there's no room left. God damn filter.

Get a n95 respirator mask if you're that worried. Otherwise, just follow what >>4240 says.

Put on your bubble and fite me for toilet paper rights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffvw6EJPmEg how to mask a gas mask

The virus is transmitted in mist aerosols, it's attached to tiny water droplets of water escaping lungs when someone breathes, sneezes or coughs. Make sure sick people wear normal medical masks and abide coughing etiquette (towels or elbow). You can sew such mask yourself and disinfect it by boiling, alcohol or in sodium hypochlorite (bleach) solution. So far I have gathered the following information: Medical/surgical masks are not effective for protecting against airborne particles, their primary purpose it to avoid medical personnel accidentally sneezing in your mouth or to protect the dentist from tooth debris. You should check the mask seal really carefully, if it is like kicking dead whales down the beach air from sides, you're screwed. Shave your neckbeard and choose the right size. The more expensive filter face piece models and respirators with replaceable filters have special latex or silicone rubber seals. Whatever "urban masks" and Respro clones are probably not suitable for this as the are made from cloth. Exhalation valve is a must for when you're not contagious, if you are, choose the model with valve pointing downwards or no valve because you have to filter the exhaling air too. The most obvious route would be to buy respirators rated for medical work and virology, but those are probably all bought out by governments worldwide already, out of stock. Protect eyes. Virus can enter lungs through eyes or with tears through nose. Wear large glasses, plastic face shields, work glasses, tight seal goggles are preferred, if not a full-face mask even. Avoid touching face, front of mask, adjusting mask when outside. If mask is touched accidentally, wash hands immediately. When removing mask, pick the straps from behind and carefully remove it: the front side contains all the outside world's pathogens. Wrap it front side in, put it into sealing plastic bag or special tightly sealed bucket with sodium hypochlorite solution. N95 rated masks or better are recommended for stopping the virus aerosols by FDA. - N for Not resistant to oil. Used when oil particulates are not present. - R for Resistant to oil. Used when oil particulates are present and the filter is disposed of after one shift. - P for oil Proof. Used when oil particulates are present and the filter is re-used for more than one shift. Basically, single-use masks should be N95, reusable P100 N95, 99 and 100 is US NIOSH classification, their European classification equivalent are FFP2 or P2, FFP3 or P3. FFP stands for filtering face piece, the single-body type of masks, P is for exchangeable respirator filters. Do not use FFP1, they filter only 80% of particles. FFP2 is the middle ground suitable for moderate physical activity like walking, FFP3 is really hard to breathe. You don't need gas filters obviously, only aerosol. Higher filter surface area means longer life cycle. Generally, filtering media is rated either for 1 shift = 8 hours, or reusable for even longer time, that means even a "disposable" respirator can be worn for a few days. Compare this to surgeon mask which is only rated for under 2 hours or until it gets damp, and is usually disposed after each patient regardless of procedure time. Boxy looking filters are protected against accidental damage and liquids and have higher surface area than round clothy-looking filters, theya re also safer to touch with bare hands since their inhale vents are on the backside. Electret (electrostatically charged material) filters allow easier breathing, but they can't be disinfected in alcohol or any liquid, only using dry oven heat about 70 degrees Celsius for 30 minutes, source: https://www.imcclinics.com/english/index.php/news/view?id=83 Avoid activated charcoal filters which are usually rated FFP1 or used as supplementary for removing odors, go for synthetic fiber filters. There are lots of respirator manufacturers around the world, I will comment on 3M, as they make rather good respirators and filter facepieces, but their filter replacements are rather pricey. Here are few designs for 3D printing/injection molding that address the issue of filter compatibility: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2796484 https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4136387

>>4246 Moronic filters, now I know what those whale talk on lain chan is all about. >is like kicking dead whales down the beach = draws

>>4246 I've read through some sources, and apparently the electrostatic filter loses it's charge only when wet, then restores to normal after drying. This potentially means that such respirators can be disinfected in alcohol, then reused after drying. Keep in mind that they are made for dusty environments, and modern city air is not dusty enough for such filter to be expired after 8 hours of regular street use, so a few bucks per face piece would last longer than few bucks of *medical masks* which incidentally nowadays cost as much.

>>4249 True. And to add to this, the useful filter life figures for the virus are advertised assuming use in medical environments or crowded cities. In practice a filter will remain usable for much longer in most areas.

>>4251 I doubt that could get a proper seal doing something so basic it would actually be much less effective than just wearing the appropriate mask and goggles.

>>4249 >This potentially means that such respirators can be disinfected in alcohol, then reused after drying. Do not do this. Alcohol is not water. Don't use bleach either. Suspending an N95 in boiling steam for 10 minutes will destroy the virus (don't submerge it in the water). You can also heat it in an oven at 75 °C for 30 minutes if you trust your thermoregulator to not go higher or lower. Microwaving will melt it.

>>4253 Forgot source. https://aim.stanford.edu/covid-19-evidence-service/

>>4251 These are good for escaping tear gas environments during protest, and also need a huge can of activated charcoal to filter it properly. They are not very comfy for longer use, and charcoal is not recommended for filtering viral particles. >>4254 You should have spared us the humiliation of running third-party jabbascripts from sketchy "app box" websites and attached the file to the post yourself.

>>4255 >E. Coli. Disinfection Efficiency thats a bit like a fighter test with "can he beat up a toddler" isnt it?

>>4256 All viruses are similar in their shell material: lipids. The matter of killing them usually amounts to exposure and material penetration. Exposition time is crucial when you disinfect your hands which you obviously can't do for 30 minutes, and soap is better at removing some viruses or bacteria than alcohol solutions. Also the premise of this paper is not disinfecting masks from coronavirus specifically, but other pathogens that are more dangerous in open surgeries and medical procedures since the shortage of masks for all medical personnel occurs. Here is the extract for those who don't want to read it: UV is not so good at penetration, only kills what lies on surface, it additionally damages plastic fibers over times 70% Ethanol or Isopropyl alcohols and chlorine solution soaking (water is needed to penetrate bacteria membranes) kills everything in exposition over 2 hours, but apparently reduces electrostatic filter efficiency. Chlorine also retains gas inside filter. Steaming for 10 minutes over boiling water and dry air autoclave or oven at 70C for 30 mins being the only reliable solutions to problem. I wonder if boiling water condensate would reduce the filter efficiency as it does during alcohol soaking. Probably not, it must have something to do with big alcohol molecules, and not the water.

>>4257 aren't virus shells made of proteins, not lipids?

Would using a HEPA filter's cloth work or does disassembling it's accordion formation make it not work well enough? Pic related >>4255 I was saying just using a bottle and insulating foam I don't think a tight enough seal around the face would be made. One would need to mold the plastic using a hair dryer on high to soften it for shaping. Also wouldn't a soft silicone seal better on the edges? There is 0 advantage over wearing goggles and the mask properly except for protecting the mask from getting wet and only if the chacoal was added does it have any filtration advantage. You forgot to mention it has to be activated charcoal and a filter needs to seal it away from being breathed in which can cause serious health risks. Theoretically speaking you can substitute activated charcoal for ionized copper powder or silver and copper infused zeolite to help deactivate viruses but again I repeat it absolutely needs to be filtered well enough to prevent being inhaled. I am not sure if there is any manufactured filters that use this method I describe. I do know there are antiviral sugical masks with zinc and copper infused though. https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-correspondence-looking-at-air-and-surface-stability-of-sars-cov-2/ https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12560-008-9006-1

>>4259 HEPA filters are not sufficient.

>>4258 either/or

>>4260 What are you basing this on? HEPA filters very effeciently particles as small as 0.01 microns and up. https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20170005166

>>4263 Who ever said it is exclusive to NASA grade? Yes there are some HEPA filters that are poor at filtration but there are commercially available ones that have good filtration ratings on them. HEPA filters work through an electrostatic charge not merely by mesh size. Even if the mesh is larger than the particles there are particles that still get caught due to air flow causing them to bounce around.

>>4264 >WhOeVer SaId iT iS eXcLusIvE tO NaSa gRaDe? >SoMe HePa FiLtErs tHat ArE PoOr Says the guy who cites NASA. Says the guy who said HEPA filters are sufficient. Contradictions all over the claims. Stop giving people bad advice.

>>4265 The United States Department of Labor has claimed HEPA filters are similar to P100 filters with no specification on the quality of the filter source. https://www.osha.gov/video/respiratory_protection/resptypes_transcript.html The CDC is suggesting healthcare providers to use homemade cotton masks if they run out of proper masks to use. Wouldn't even the worst HEPA or HVAC or whatever filter cloth is better than a scarf or bandanna? https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/face-masks.html

>>4265 No claim of sufficiency was made. No advice was given. It's a way to question how you even came to such conclusions and why you have not even attempted to show any documentation to clear uncertainties up.

>>4238 >Can I just use a scarf No. Not gonna make it senpai >my paranoia If you were really paranoid you would have bought a mask in January, if not before. A scarf helps filter out the other air particles (diesel etc) so Kung Flu's Lung Pao particles can get into your airways unobstructed.

>>4246 So, what is the universal mask advice applicable to any place on the planet? I've browsed through 3M websites, and they seem to be selling everywhere, so it's a good start. Other international brands of local variety should be researched torughly as well. Their disposable masks and filters tend to have similar branding in different countries, but some locally manufactured varieties and numbers appear, so giving numbers would not be explicitly sufficient. Here's my finding, all masks have exhale valve, masks without exhale valve degrade much faster and are not really needed for non-infected people, aside from asymptomatic carriers of course: Two folding masks, good for putting in pocket when not in use (probably not as hygienic, it's better to decontaminate masks every time you arrive home, I propose the following rotation: you walk with three masks, one for commute one way, one for destination location, one for commute back, you seal them in plastic bags, then arrive home and disinfect all three, let them sit for 24 hours while using another three, then rotate again): 3M VFlex "disposable" masks with exhalation valve FFP2 or more rating, newer models have electrostatic filter, they lack foam seal 3M Aura "disposable" with exhalation valve FFP2/N95 or more rating, 3M catalogs list Aura as "Premium", VFlex as "Comfort" just in the middle of their whole range. Apparently Aura has some sort of foam in nose clip area, not not all around, which VFlex lacks at all. Cup non-folding models, some of them are in Europe, some in US: EU: 8122 8322 8833 FFP3 and has as full face seal US: 8511 8211 8210V 8293 (P100) 8233 (N100) 3M reusable respirators are very simple, there are 3 general half-face mask models, one of them has a quick release modification, each mask has 3 sizes, each size is indicated by slightly different rubber seal color and letter, masks accept two filters into bayonet holders, look up what filters are sold locally because there's too much of them. You need aerosol filters, the boxy type are protected against weather, harsh environment and accidentally touching filter surface with dirty hands, circular filters are more simple. 3M 6000 mask is the lightest, has exhale valve pointing forward and unprotected like on disposable masks, the face seal is latex rubber, has sizes listed as this: 6100 - small, 6200 - medium, 6300 - large. 3M 6500 has exhale valve covered and pointing downwards, and face seal is made out of silicone, the 6500QL model has a "quick latch" to remove mask from face without touching harness on the head. model numbers: 6501 - small, 6502 - medium, 6503 - large. 3M 7500 is described as most rugged and heavy in weight, has covered valve pointing downwards, and another variant of quick release mechanism, albeit not as simple as on 6500QL. It's sizes are: 7501 - small, 7502 - medium, 7503 - large.

>>4246 You shouldn't use bleach to disinfect masks. You can get gassed by the fumes doing that even after airing it out.

>>4270 Highly unlikely if aired out. You're acting like we're venturing out into a wasteland of chemical warfare.

>>4238 A scarf can help against your own droplets infecting someone else, but that mostly comes in the form of, you cough, droplets don't go flying everywhere. If you really want something solid, I would go with the vacuum bag, like this guy said: >>4240

>>4271 >In summary bleach and microwaves were failure at point of care because the bleach gases (skin and respiratory irritants) remained after multiple strategies were used to remove them, the microwave melted the masks and soaking them first led to reduced filtration.

>>4273 >microwaves melt plastic Now this is something new

>>4269 >Two folding masks, good for putting in pocket when not in use (probably not as hygienic, it's better to decontaminate masks every time you arrive home, I propose the following rotation: you walk with three masks, one for commute one way, one for destination location, one for commute back, you seal them in plastic bags, then arrive home and disinfect all three, let them sit for 24 hours while using another three, then rotate again): >let them sit for 24 hours Not gonna make it senpai. Coronavirus Survives up to 9 days on different materials https://archive.is/HsmZ9 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jhin.2020.01.022 Coronavirus Survives 28 days in bacteria on surfaces at 4°C https://archive.is/HsmZ9 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jhin.2020.01.022 >tfw you were doing mask rotation weeks prior to lockdown

>>4270 >You shouldn't use bleach to disinfect masks. Depends on the mask. The mask >>4246 is merely a cloth over the mouth and nose, so yes, bleach washing is fine as long as the material supports cleaning by bleach (not all do). If you're talking about FFP3 types that _filter_ particles then you would need something like UV/sunlight disinfection to not compromise the mask. EVERYONE everywhere should be wearing some form of mask around others. The virus is asymptomatic. You can have ZERO symptoms and be infectious to others. So if you start to develop symptoms WEEKS from now you are RIGHT NOW infecting the people around you! Wearing a masks NOW helps break the chain of infection. Without going off into conspiracy theory land...I'm so surprised this world is failing to understand this simple point, it seems negligent and borderline intentional.

>>4246 >Protect eyes. Virus can enter lungs through eyes or with tears through nose. ...and EARS! No one is mentioning the EARS! Remember hospitals have an ENT department?? ENT = EAR NOSE THROAT - all three are connected. Less likely than eyes, but still possible. Don't let anyone whisper in your ear for now.

>>4255 Seems like there was an update (25th March version) on the day (25th Mar) you posted that version (22nd March version). Including the PDF listed there currently (25th March version) URL: https://stanfordmedicine.app.box.com/v/covid19-PPE-1-2

>>4245 is activated charcoal + cotton enough to filter out the virus?

>>4279 Activated charcoal doesn't work for viruses. However the viruses don't move on their own. When aerosolised they are encased in fine moisture particles which makes them a little bigger so it may stop the moisture from moving far enough theoretically speaking. As mentioned here >>4259 other things may work better than activated charcoal but just cotton probably wouldn't be safe enough as a filter to prevent you breathing these dust particles in which would more likely than not do more damage than a potential virus. Zeolite is similar to activated charcoal being that it's a porous substance. This is just speculative though as not enough studies that I am aware of for reference for this specific use. Try to think critically not fearfully. >>4276 In the US people are being advised not to wear masks unless they show symptoms or tested positive but even if people have symptoms many are being turned away.

>>4280 Basically the recommendation to not wear masks is just to preserve stock for hospitals, and is doing pretty deep damage to the reputation of the CDC along with everything else since if you ask a doctor they will tell you of course you should wear as mask. But my grocery store has added gas station style PVC protection around the check stand. I think one good step to take is to go to a grocery store that is at least acting like they are taking this seriously. Some aren't.

>>4283 CDC and Surgeon General. But what do other governments say? It is reasonable a reason because it's important doctors and nurses have them because it could be spread to most vulnerable and leave them out of commision to help patients but they shouldn't be lying because it actually made even more people get masks not really understanding the situation. Apparently 3D printed masks aren't a solution for healthcare providers because they dont fit well enough on the seal but the general public it might be useful for those with the ability to make it and have it custom fitted to their face? Though still is the issue of the seal being broken when moving their jaw because the plastic rigidity.

Stop confusing surgical (medical masks) and filtering facepiece respirators. First are for sick and those who care for sick if better protection is not available, second are for not getting sick.

>>4285 It's just people call both face masks. It doesn't inherently mean someone is confusing them and their use.

>>4284 >ignoring the fact that hospitals have to buy masks from Walmart

>>4287 Either you replied to wrong post or misread it

Can anyone confirm this information? It claims cotton is the best out of these alternatives due to the balance of breathability and filtration although poor filtration. Also confusingly the site mentions surgical masks when it seems to be showing N95 masks in some images. Which is it talking about? https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-materials-make-diy-face-mask-virus/ Would a split microfiber cloth make for better respirator masks than cotton or vacuum bags? Or would it also have to be non woven microfiber like that which is used in some surgical masks?

Just make a facemask at home. Video related. https://youtu.be/HhNo_IOPOtU

>>4297 Well most people got that but the question is how to actually make one that not only protects others but ones self. Getting the right shape and a proper seal. >>4296 I have since fron posting this have heard N95 masks are melted spun and bound non woven polypropylene and cellulose in layers. I don't know what the cellulose is for. Basically a process and material similar to the production of certain microfiber cloths. I suppose other materials other than polypropylene may be used since that's probably just for making it more biodegradable since the normal N95s are designed to be disposable not repeated use.

>>4300 I meant polypropylene is recyclable. I may have been thinking of a different material.

>>4238 Just don't touch your face. Masks are not what prevents you from getting the virus since nobody will spit droplets in your face.

>>4302 That's not where droplets come from. They come from coughing, sneezing, yelling or even just talking. If fine enough they float in the air a while thus are aerosolised.

Found out it's not too difficult to do a qualitative fit testing. Quantatative requires expensive machines. iosamyl acetate = banana smell saccharin = sweet taste bitrex = bitter taste smoke irritant = coughing https://youtube.com/watch?v=D38BjgUdL5U

>>4238 Right above her left eye, it says "" in arabic which means Darkness.

>>4366 I was wondering who this animu was redrawn to look like. I think it's some cloud rapper or something but I can't tell. Peep related.

Two layers of heavy cotton with a filter material in between provides some protection. Best filter materials are made from HEPA filters, vacuum cleaner bags, and flannel (yes, the stuff your pajamas are made of). The thicker the better, so long as you can still breathe easily. Common coffee filters are somewhat less effective, but still not bad, and are recommended by the CDC. The mask should fit well enough to breathe through it, not from around its edges.

>>4370 the one you just posted is lil peep. not sure about op, maybe sosmula?

>>4303 >they might finally ban talking outside

my grandma made me one it works really well

>>4376 >sosmula nice to see a fellow morgue fan on lain

>>4238 Use a material that's electrostatic. Viruses are piezoelectric micromachines, they're also polar and will stick to charged surfaces. Also this: >>4384 Assuming a virus actually exists, it's incredibly weak and trivial.

>>4238 I love the future

>>4716 Preview looks like a fly with afro,

The cheapest, safest, and most widely available material that will capture particles in the range of coronavirus is common, everyday cotton flannel. Properly constructed and worn, it can remove about 85% of the particles, compared to the 95% of an N95 mask.

Surgical face masks work against SARS-CoV-2, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Thailand and China have all suppressed the pandemic using >97% surgical face mask usage. https://arxiv.org/abs/2004.13553 Surgical face masks are rated for 95% PFE @ .1 micron, but the earloop-type has an air-leak around the edges that needs to be sealed with tape in order to actually protect the user. The strap-type face mask doesn't have this problem. But for when SHTF and medical-grade face masks aren't available, you can always make an N95 tier face mask using salt water solution and paper towel. https://robots-everywhere.com/re_wiki/pub/web/Cookbook.SaltMask.html https://www.nature.com/articles/srep39956 You can also add the salt filter layer to cotton masks to vastly boost filtration efficiency against virus-containing aerosols. Everyone should be wearing a face mask, it is the cheapest, safest and easiest way to not catch SARS-CoV-2. The pandemic will end as soon as everyone wears a face mask for 3 months.

It's actually pretty impressive that the fabric face masks have >50% filtration efficiency over 20-800 nm. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.16.20155119v1.full.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9T5SWk1THU i have one of these, do you think i can make some adaptor to the hose so that it would fit to an MSA millenium? trying to go for for that satchel style thing like they have in avatar. currently have a respro mask that theoretically should work but im not too confident in it as moving my jaw the wrong way fuarrrks the seal.

>>4785 I've seen charts like that before and I always wonder how much of it is just correlation: that countries with high universal masking rates are also doing much more useful things like banning large groups and strongly enforcing the two meter distance rule. The thing that makes me skeptical about masks is the fact that the WHO has said in very explicit terms that there is limited evidence that universal masking is effective (i.e. masking of healthy people; they have always recommended masks for medical personal, sick people, and people in situations where they can't properly distance themselves). They later revised this from outright discouragement of universal masking (in their April guidance) to lukewarm support of it (in their revised guidance in June, I think). I mean, the WHO could just be stupid or deliberately lying but as it stands I'm not sure whether I should trust them or the CDC more, because they're saying different things.

If you are 25 years old, your chances of dying this year go from 0.00065, which was the average rate of all causes of death before covid, to 0.00066 with covid. Nothing. Burger. Just get the antibodies and forget about it. The virus is a real concern for older people, but for the young it's statistically no risk at all. I say the olds had their chance, they lived their lives during the most prosperous period of human history and basically pulled the ladder up behind them. And even for them, chances overwhelmingly favor survival. So fuсk 'em. None of this was a worthwhile reaction to a barely-significant virus. Should have let it knock loose a little bit of geriatric wealth and be on its way. But instead we collapsed all of our futures for the sake of this overwhelming and irrational fear combined with moralizing and people's need to flaunt their ethical superiority to each other. Hundreds of millions will starve due to the famine these lockdowns have ensured will happen. Hundreds of millions. That's based on a UN estimate, by the way. People don't need a dang mask any more than they've needed a mask for the flu or cold seasons that have happened for eons.

>>4726 Holy ѕһіt

>>4381 Antisocial freaks getting the twisted world they want, enforcing their own misery upon everyone else.

>>4799 It's been pretty well-known from the beginning of the pandemic that the virus's symptoms aren't a big deal for 20-somethings. You're saying nothing new. The reason I'm worried about catching the virus isn't for the sake of my own health - it's so that I don't end up spreading it to anyone else who it might be a bigger deal for (and it's contagious for a while before any symptoms start showing, so "just stay home if you're sick" isn't legitimate advice). Just because I'd be fine doesn't mean I want to kill my dad.

>>4802 > I'm worried about catching the virus but the media told me to protest for BLM or stay at home if you're racist. Is your dads life more important then the BLM movement?

>>4799 My dad has asthma and I live with him. Also if I get the virus, I don't want to spread it to random strangers, because I'm not malicious and wearing a mask is literally easier than not wearing a mask. So that immediately obviates all of your arguments. But let's go through them anyway, because there are a lot of fallacies here. >If you are 25 years old, your chances of dying this year go from 0.00065, which was the average rate of all causes of death before covid, to 0.00066 with covid. I would like to know what model this is derived from. You could pretty easily make it seem like very deadly things are no trouble at all... for instance, adding in paragliding would not change the chance that you die this year by much at all because the chance that you paraglide is very low. If you just took P(you die this year) and added P(you die | you get covid), you're adding two values which measure different things and getting a worthless number as a result. From the data I could find(very hard to find data on this, I had to look on wikipedia) the fatality rate for patients 20-29 in the US is about .1%. In other words almost 1 in 1000 25-year-olds who get covid die. If you're vigorous and healthy we could maybe be generous and say 1 in 100,000 chance of death (same wikipedia article says 97% of fatalities had a comorbidity in one sample, so this is reasonable). That's still not a bet I'm willing to take, especially considering that there are so many long-term health effects even in patients who survive *and* the symptoms are absolutely miserable for a big chunk of the infected population. Oh by the way, if 1% of the world population dies to coronavirus and ensuring hospital overloading(which is a real possibility if spread is not mitigated), that's 700,000,000 people dead. So, probably worse than the famines that have somehow not appeared yet.

>>4802 Clearly it doesn't kill a lot of young people, but what about this long term brain fog/microstroke stuff? Is that a real concern or just the media fearmongering? Sounds a lot like lyme which is horrifying. I will say the media is clearly fearmongering about the MIS-C with all the coverage for such a tiny number of cases. Probably an effort to get people to comply with the restrictions.

>>4806 Yeah. These are the really bad arguments that have been popping up all over social media lately. I'm sorry your dad has asthma, but so do I and I've already had covid. I'm in my forties. The rate of survival is still overwhelming, and I've had no lasting effects either. It was a nasty fever and all, but it really wasn't anything I hadn't seen before. Just my own anecdotal experience. But even with asthma, the risk is extraordinarily low. Which is very good news for your dad, because we are all most definitely getting it eventually. Lockdown was never meant to prevent infections, only reduce hospital load. I think people shifted goalposts and forgot that in a large way. The infection is still very much a natural disaster, out of our control. Most humans will get it, either this season or the next one. No credible epidemiologist would say that containment is possible at this point. Even vaccines won't mitigate this; seasonal flu vaccines prevent countless illnesses, but individuals still always eventually get the flu. The fatality rate for people 20-29 is rounded up radically in that statistic you cite. It's definitely less than one in a thousand for all causes. Nowhere near one in a thousand of that age die of any reason in the entire world. The base fatality rate for this age bracket is much less than that for all causes, and covid certainly doesn't raise that in any significant way. The comorbidities you mention—those are counted. And full disclosure; comorbidities actually go up with decreasing age with covid. The young ones who do die actually are less likely to have complications. But this has more to do with the fact that old people often have comorbidities by default. They just have a higher rate of all illnesses. The "long-term health effects" are mostly exaggerated. They are a lot of extremely preliminary meta-studies, the hardest ones to get right, the most p-hacked of all medical studies, and the ones most in need of independent replication. Of which there are none. Like the recent "study" about CNS infiltration, for instance. No source for that one has ever been publicly posted as far as I can find, but nonetheless it is breathlessly reported on. That's the problem with calling this science. Scientists have a duty to attack their own hypothesis, to try and disprove and thereby distill the truth, to break their own models and synthesize until they reach something more resembling reality than the previous model. Doctors and epidemiologists don't have the same motivations. They have an exogenous goal. They want less people to die, which is absolutely a noble effort. But this means they must be tempered by other disciplines, which they have not been at all thus far. Fauci and multiple others have admitted this themselves in earnest consternation, but it's not something that is dwelt on by media. They get maximal gain from taking the worst-case scenario, and even exaggerating that, because that would scare people into taking precautions more seriously no matter how mild the disease may turn out to be. But there are other variables they are not interested in accounting for. If you look up collateral organ damage from the flu, it's about equivalent as the supposed ravages of covid. Extremely rare, and limited to those who are already exceptionally old and sick. The flu causes lots of decreased lung capacity, chronic fatigue syndrome, multiple organ failure. It's really frightening if you look at it in terms of absolute numbers. Which is a statistically deceptive method, and should be identified as such. Any public policy based on absolute numbers should be immediately suspect. We should use relative rates. Any tiny percentage multiplied by seven billion is scary. What if we applied this same standard to countless other things in our lives? Most people's commute is far more dangerous than covid. Do we want to re-arrange our whole culture based on these entirely unprecedented standards of risk? Are we ready to tackle this in a way that sidesteps massive damage? I also wish death was avoidable, but when we face reality we have to steel ourselves and admit that we will die. Many of us before our time, in vain. We should always minimize those factors; I'm not heartless. But we should always know that every action is a trade-off. This isn't kindergarten. By eradicating nearly all work and socialization, we minimize (in the short-term ONLY) some contagions, but we will have double-digit mass evictions, loss of livelihood, loss of opportunities, education, countless other medical crises of delay. The consequences are too difficult to calculate because this is unprecedented. People act as if global shutdown was the default reaction to this. Some kind of extant game plan. But it is in fact a grand, unscientific, unplanned experiment! Nothing of this sort has ever been attempted. There is no control. We can't even tell what effects should be attributed to what causes. We're in the cool zone. The truth is—a truth which will progressively come out as we gain distance from this crisis, kind of like the Iraq war—is that this is about as bad as a novel flu, except it overwhelmingly doesn't affect the young. And how will that feel, as we assess the mega-depression we've started? You say the famines "somehow haven't appeared yet." Yet covid cynics tend to always stress that factors are delayed indicators. A failed harvest takes months to come into focus, and years to fully play out. It isn't just food that will be needed now; it is stores of grain that will be needed next year. It's even seed that will be needed to try and plant fields next season, the fruit of which will be needed even further down the line. It's lost generational wealth that will reverberate through billions of families, much like the great depression did to many of our grandparents and parents in the west. I remember my mom having depression stories, even though she was born about fifteen years after. If you read about the dust bowl, you will learn that at the time it was caused by what was considered "science" at the advisory of the best agricultural experts in the west. And they were actually advising within their field of expertise, unlike these doctors who are affecting vast, global, socioeconomic policy using only some grad school medical crap. https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/04/1062272 The estimates of "1% of total global population" dying because of hospital overload are insanely deceptive. We can already see quite major countries which refused lockdown entirely. They experienced a period of hospital overload that was actually comparable to some of our midwestern states (inevitably bad, but not shocking) and now their death rates have zeroed out, with the population apparently close enough to herd immunity to keep things in check for the rest of the season. And still in all these countries, tuberculosis is the worst contagious killer. That's the thing. This isn't such a single-variable equation. You can't just do the math yourself and expect it to mean anything. How is this trusting science? Even the most alarmist computer models didn't predict 1% of the WORLD POPULATION. That was entirely extrapolated by fools on twitter. You're making a leap and ignoring the fact that you're substituting fear and your own agenda for fact. You take little fragments of facts and glue them together with hysteria. Our hospitals in the US overloaded immediately because our for-profit medical system keeps hospitals at the brink of capacity at all times because it makes good business sense in nominal situations. Insurance companies pressure hospitals to downsize until they just barely keep up with average trends, ignoring exceptional moments like this one. The whole catastrophe right now is an effort to shift the blame away from this shabbily-constructed and fragile medical system onto common citizens, who supposedly caused this to spiral out of control by partying at the beach or going to walmart without a mask. This is entirely a diversion. The real fault is our lack of substantive infrastructure. The disease is serious, but not nearly as serious as it's made out to be. It's a super flu. After the first spread, the antibodies in the wild will render it no worse than any other cold or flu. But at this point, the establishment needs it to remain a catastrophe because if it isn't, it belies their neglect. It's been blasted out of proportions for political means, but since it's not a completely contrived event (I'm not that tin-hat, mind you) it has been taken advantage of by both the left and the right in most countries. It's a sensationalist media bonanza. We'll be coming to our senses about this for the next ten years, much like the several entirely pointless wars we're somehow still engaged in in the middle east. Things we never had any good reason to pursue, yet still we are burdened. It's not an especially dangerous coronavirus. You can catch something much worse off any toilet seat in a bar, if those were still open. All independent or local businesses are collapsing, their market share being vacuumed up by massive digital conglomerates. Which have had a mysterious boon during all this, partially due to kleptocratic bailouts. This is a con. This is a ruling-class general strike.

>>4808 Sorry for writing a novel. It's just so insane how people are blindspotting this situation. If we substituted anything else with a comparable statistical risk, nobody would ever try and twist their minds into some unnatural form to justify it.

>>4807 I have chronic fatigue from mono which is far worse than anything projected from Covid. Mono is widespread through school systems throughout the world, but it hasn't caused us to trigger a great depression. Flu and cold and herpes and chicken pox and pinkeye have similar long-term effects that you don't hear about because they aren't reported on. Have you ever heard of shingles?? The long-term effects are a bargaining tool of these parties who, though they always had good intentions, are afraid of the consequences of being wrong about a risk that has caused the world to collapse. They need something to cling to. The actual cases of covid are high double-digits asymptomatic, perhaps even majority in some current calculations. The people who have long-term damage are people who already had massive preexisting conditions. It's not a normal thing to happen to normal people at all.

>>4802 Can you project this totally new moral commandment unto other things with a similar risk level r.e: your dad? Have you seen the latest IFR for people your dad's age? Would you think it's rational for the entire world to shut down each normal flu season for your dad? Because it's likely more than half as dangerous as this is. Where's the cutoff? At what level do we decide to shut down the planet? What if we had something merely midway between covid and the seasonal flu? How about ever taking your dad on a drive, much less a vacation? Both of which have massively more chance to kill him than covid. And the global economic crash has a huge chance of killing you, or at least ruining your life for decades. It has an even greater chance of killing your offspring, if you're lucky enough to afford them. Economic effects, for how frivolously they are dismissed lately, are generational in nature. And we aren't going to escape their influence in the next administration. That's entirely unrealistic. We need to fight with what we have, even as we strain for what we want! Deal in absolute numbers and you'll only get scared for no reason. You aren't killing anyone's grandma or parents here. This is a mass failure to understand statistics, and a mass success of agents with ulterior motives to abuse statistics. Watch what happens to covid after November 3rd. That's a bet. For the record, I support neither of these senile old piece-of-ѕһіt candidates. But I have been through enough administrations to know a fake election-year panic when I see one. This happens more often than not, but I think most people who freak out about covid (and are also the least likely to be threatened, as it turns out) don't have enough under their belt to see it. That's not your fault; it's just a fact of life that is easily exploited. And have you asked your dad if he'd want that fate to hang on your head, just to take a small bit of risk off his at the very end of his days? Should you respect it if he expected such an asymmetrical sacrifice? My granddad died in WWII for the sake of a child he conceived a week before he boarded that ship, somebody he never got to meet. But in his letters it was clear he was proud to. He was walking into a death-trap; he and his wife and everyone else knew already. I don't think our old should allow the young to destroy our world just to keep them alive a few years longer. I swear I don't ask this to insult your father or be snotty. All the old people I've talked to about covid have had a similar opinion, and I suspect that if the terms are brought to their full consequences your dad would feel the same. Have you talked to the elderly about it? I've noticed their perspective is singularly omitted from media coverage. I actually have lots of friends in older generations, and they're the most fearless of all about this. And not out of brashness or ignorance. Fine, some of them might be. But mostly they seem to think it's not their place to demand their children to defy fate on their behalf, to face that wrath.

I think that when human life is at hand, it's tempting to assign life an infinite value. After all, isn't it heartless to assign any lower value to life; to possibly make it equivalent to something that might be traded, the same as material things? It seems monstrous. And surely to an individual, one's own life is always valued higher than all else. Or is it? Isn't there some spiritual purpose we all must place above our lives, no matter our creed or even lack thereof? If a man is on his deathbed and is promised a cure for his disease in exchange for selling all his children into slavery, is that an ethical exchange? After all, the children might not die—and a life would be preserved. It's an extreme case, but it presents a logic we can't so easily dismiss. We can't accept the lure of assigning life infinite value. Of course we must value it, but we must know when that trade becomes inevitable. None of our ancestors would have wished us to give up our future for their vanity's sake. They are watching us. Some of them are still alive, urging us to press forward despite our sincere wishes for their health. That's the thing about the dance of life—it can never stop. Only an insane society would devour its young to save its old. Nobody ever expected nature to test this crazy philosophical ideal in such a literal way, yet here we are. Do we destroy our way of life, create a "new normal," for those who have already had their time? Is that really a mercy? Or is it our own narcissism, our need to feel like we have been good and paid our debts? Would any of us, at the end of our lives, feel satisfied if we knew our descendants destroyed their own future to give us a few more months? I think it would be a slap to the face. We've got to have some steel, some nerve. We can't let this cow us. We can't flinch like this again. They survived not only worse pandemics than this, but world war and the brink of nuclear annihilation. They're fine, and we have to be fine too. We've got to pull our ѕһіt together, god damn it.

>>4808 >Yeah. These are the really bad arguments that have been popping up all over social media lately. I'm sorry your dad has asthma, but so do I and I've already had covid. I'm in my forties. The rate of survival is still overwhelming, and I've had no lasting effects either. Cool, so you survived. If you were unlucky you would not have. >But even with asthma, the risk is extraordinarily low. It's really not. Although I just looked it up and apparently asthma doesn't appear to change anything, which is surprising, I had assumed it would make symptoms worse. Good to know. Even so. A 0.1% chance of death is not extraordinarily low. If someone told me that there was a 1 in 1000 chance that he would come kill my dad, I would consider it risky >Which is very good news for your dad, because we are all most definitely getting it eventually. Lockdown was never meant to prevent infections, only reduce hospital load. I think people shifted goalposts and forgot that in a large way. This is true. Lockdown in the sense of what it was like in May is no longer necessary or productive and some people act as if it is. But the "phased re-opening" model that many areas are using seems to me to be a good middle ground. I've already mostly resumed my normal life. Still. Wear a fuarrrking mask. It's piss easy and effective. >The fatality rate for people 20-29 is rounded up radically in that statistic you cite then what is the true fatality rate? Many of the numbers from the same table were rounded down to 0% >Nowhere near one in a thousand of that age die of any reason in the entire world. again, you are mixing up different statistics. More than 1 in 1000 25 year olds who shoot themselves die of it, for instance. P(you die) is not comparable to P(you die | something specific happens). It's also just not true, for instance in war-torn regions 1/10 of all young men could easily die in a year. >This isn't kindergarten. By eradicating nearly all work and socialization, we minimize (in the short-term ONLY) some contagions, but we will have double-digit mass evictions, loss of livelihood, loss of opportunities, education, countless other medical crises of delay IMO blame for this should be firmly placed on the people who ignored all these problems as they were developing during lockdown. They were all avoidable, but nothing was done to avoid them. Much like the lockdown situation in the first place. >People act as if global shutdown was the default reaction to this. Some kind of extant game plan. Shutting down social activities, and isolating, is definitely the default reaction to new plagues historically. It was taken to a new extreme this time mostly because it was possible and, partly, because of the mass hysteria you cite. >The truth is—a truth which will progressively come out as we gain distance from this crisis, kind of like the Iraq war—is that this is about as bad as a novel flu, except it overwhelmingly doesn't affect the young. Novel flus sometimes become significantly more deadly for younger people over time. >A failed harvest takes months to come into focus, and years to fully play out. What about covid causes a failed harvest? It's not as if this is a crop blight. The effects are logistical in nature. With just-in-time delivery it becomes immediately obvious when you didn't get a shipment. >If you read about the dust bowl, you will learn that at the time it was caused by what was considered "science" at the advisory of the best agricultural experts in the west. It was caused by ploughing the prairie and planting cotton. The cause was economical, cotton was more profitable than corn and crop rotation that was practiced before. >And still in all these countries, tuberculosis is the worst contagious killer. That's the thing. This isn't such a single-variable equation. You can't just do the math yourself and expect it to mean anything. How is this trusting science? Even the most alarmist computer models didn't predict 1% of the WORLD POPULATION I made a back of the envelope calculation. You're absolutely incorrect that the computer models didn't predict 1% of the world population dying from coronavirus -- a very common model would have predicted higher. I just assumed 2% death rate overall when adjusted for most of the world being unable to reach a hospital, and 60% of the population eventually getting the disease (prediction from unmitigated spread). >>4810 I caught the whooping cough at school as a kid. It was considered a very serious outbreak at the time with something like 300 infections and 0 deaths, luckily it was contained before it got bad. That is how the coronavirus epidemic *SHOULD* have gone. People react to new risks much more because they don't know how to deal with them or how risky they actually are. Most people are already done with lockdown. Right now my parents have some friends over. >>4812 >Would you think it's rational for the entire world to shut down each normal flu season for your dad? no, but I think it's rational to get the flu vaccine and wear a mask if the flu season is bad. >How about ever taking your dad on a drive, much less a vacation? Both of which have massively more chance to kill him than covid. This is just not true. 36,560 people died last year in automobile accidents in the US, out of billions of discrete automobile trips. Covid deaths have already surpassed that, both absolutely and in terms of fatality rate. More importantly, when you drive you have control over the outcome, you can drive safe. You do not get control over whether you live or die when you are infected with coronavirus. >And have you asked your dad if he'd want that fate to hang on your head, just to take a small bit of risk off his at the very end of his days? he's nowhere near the end of his days. He already takes on more risk than me, me mostly being shut-in with few friends and no job and him working. I want to make one thing clear to all you asshats, this thread is about wearing masks, not full lockdown with everyone isolated from each other. Wearing a mask is piss easy and benefits everyone. It's barely an inconvenience, stop complaining and do it.

OP: yes a folded scarf is good. If it gets damp when you breathe hard, it's working.

>>4798 The evidence for surgical face masks to prevent the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 is conclusive. Only 25% of surgical masked hamsters contracted SARS-CoV-2 versus 67% of non-masked hamsters. https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa644/5848814 >>4797 Use tape to seal any air gaps. Try 3D printing an adapter too.

>>4799 Antibodies for SARS-CoV-2 last 3 months, cases of reinfection have already been confirmed like other coronaviruses. Organ damage from each infection is permanent and accumulative, of course. It's also confirmed that SARS-CoV-2 damages the male reproductive system and can cause sterility, just like SARS-CoV-1. https://www.eu-focus.europeanurology.com/article/S2405-4569(20)30144-9/fulltext >SARS-CoV-1 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7109827/ This is a potential ELE, if you let it spread unchecked.

>>4827 Cite those numbers, otherwise it's FUD

https://twitter.com/who/status/1217043229427761152?lang=en >Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China🇨🇳. pic.twitter.com/Fnl5P877VG 3:18 AM - 14 Jan 2020

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0965-6 >In this study, we observed that IgG levels and neutralizing antibodies in a high proportion of individuals who recovered from SARS-CoV-2 infection start to decrease within 2–3 months after infection. In another analysis of the dynamics of neutralizing antibody titers in eight convalescent patients with COVID-19, four patients showed decreased neutralizing antibodies approximately 6–7 weeks after illness onset. One mathematical model also suggests a short duration of immunity after SARS-CoV-2 infection https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.09.20148429v1 >For example, donors 52 and 54 both generated 188 a low nAb response (peak ID 50 of 174 and 434 respectively) but no neutralization could be 189 detected in our assay 39 and 34 days after the peak in ID 50 respectively https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/article/S1198-743X(20)30411-0/fulltext >We herein estimated the longevity of specific antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 in a moderate COVID-19 patient, and reported that antibodies disappeared within 3 months after the onset of the symptoms. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2025179 >The initial mean IgG level was 3.48 log 10 ng per milliliter (range, 2.52 to 4.41). On the basis of a linear regression model that included the par- ticipants’ age and sex, the days from symptom onset to the first measurement, and the first log 10 antibody level, the estimated mean change (slope) was −0.0083 log 10 ng per milliliter per day (range, −0.0352 to 0.0062), which corresponds to a half-life of approximately 73 days over the observation period https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.27.20082032v1 >re-infections with the same endemic coronavirus are not atypical in a time window shorter than 1 year https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jmv.26056 >it cannot be excluded that truly negative discharged patients suffered reactivation or were re‐infected with another SARS‐CoV‐2 strain. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjh4WuV94VQ&feature=youtu.be >at least two of his Covid-19 patients had recovered from and tested negative for the coronavirus for months, but then started again experiencing symptoms of the disease and tested positive.

>>4829 Nice tweet of the WHO doing their job and passing on preliminary information gleaned from member states with the necessary qualifiers that is preliminary information from a member state and not a conclusive report. They followed this up with their investigations and further press releases as soon as it became apparent that the initial chinese investigation was wrong. Fortunately the people these press releases are aimed at general understand what the words preliminary investigation mean.

>>4824 A scarf is exactly the worst thing you could use, and it would be even worse when damp or wet. Why would you post dangerous misinformation?

>>4832 if it gets wet when you breathe, it's blocking water droplets, which is the whole point. A scarf is the worst thing you could use but it's a lot better than nothing.

>>4833 It's really easy to test whether filter works against SARS-CoV-2 aerosols. 1. Weigh filter before coughing. 2. Cough 10 times into filter. 3. Weigh filter again after coughing. 4. Compare difference in weight to find mass of SARS-CoV-2 aerosols captured.

https://mmnews.tv/pakistan-confirms-first-reinfection-case-of-coronavirus/ >The reinfected patient, who is a doctor at Mayo Hospital in Lahore, had initially tested positive for the coronavirus three months ago while treating the COVID-19 patients. The doctor made a complete recovery and was discharged from the isolation center after testing negative. >However, the doctor recently developed more severe symptoms of coronavirus once again and tested positive for the disease. Kazmi has urged the public to exercise caution. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-16/us-sailors-get-coronavirus-for-second-time-covid-19/12255468 >Five US sailors on an aircraft carrier sidelined in Guam due to a COVID-19 outbreak have tested positive for the virus for the second time and have been taken off the ship, according to the US Navy. >All five sailors had previously tested positive and had gone through at least two weeks of isolation. >As part of the process, they all had to test negative twice in a row, with the tests separated by a day or two, before they were allowed to go back to the ship. https://www.pkheartjournal.com/index.php/pkheart/article/view/1911 >Among 1,052 patients, 12.1% (n=127) patients were found re-infected having positive RT-PCR with different clinical samples including nasopharyngeal swab, an anal swab, throat swab, and sputum samples. All re-infected patients were found with mild to moderate clinical symptoms. These findings suggest that recurrence of COVID-19 is exist.

The majority of statements from the who in the last 6 months are completely antithetical to containing or controlling SARS-CoV-2. https://www.voanews.com/science-health/coronavirus-outbreak/who-chief-urges-countries-not-close-borders-foreigners-china >"There is no reason for measures that unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade. We call on all countries to implement decisions that are evidence-based and consistent. WHO stands ready to provide advice to any country that is considering which measures to take,” Tedros said. https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/02/1056672 >“People had suddenly the impression that the virus was in the air and…there is this cloud of virus” that can cause infection, she said. “This is not the situation. Currently the virus is transmitted through droplets and you need a close contact to be infected…So we try to clarify what we know about the science - what is still unknown - and provide recommendations that can help people to protect themselves and their families.” >Dr Briand’s comments echo those of WHO Director-General, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, who on Monday said that the agency was working with major internet platforms to ensure that WHO’s information about the coronavirus appears first in online searches. >He also downplayed reports that people infected with the virus may be contagious before they show symptoms — a feature that, if true, would make it much harder to control. >“Until [containment] is impossible, we should keep trying,” Dr. Mike Ryan, head of the WHO’s Emergencies Program, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/face-masks-cannot-stop-healthy-people-getting-covid-19-says-who https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/who-no-need-for-healthy-people-to-wear-face-masks-2020-4 >The World Health Organization has held off from recommending people wear face masks in public after assessing fresh evidence that suggested the items may help to contain the pandemic. http://www.fao.org/europe/news/detail-news/en/c/1267349/ >There is no evidence of the involvement of animals (livestock and pets) in the spread of the coronavirus, and there is no justification in taking measures that may compromise animal welfare.

The most secure & protective method of defending a face from corona particles is by wearing nappy as a face mask.Diapers contain a superabsorbent polymer that can absorb and retain extremely large amounts of a liquid relative to its own mass & since it was designed to deal with feces and urine therefore one 0.02 micron corona particle has no chance getting through a layers of water-absorbing polymers. Pro tip: you can also equip diaper absorbent boosters under the nappy mask & shove tampons up your nostrils(maxi-pads are for pussies) to further increase the corona resistance of your face,this basically turns your nappy face mask in to a blackhole of absorption that could absorb a tropical monsoon rain storm!!! https://www.smartparenting.com.ph/life/news/doh-diapers-underwear-substitute-face-masks-a00041-20200115

>>4836 I'm convinced the WHO is a pawn of the CCP. - While there was a chance of containment they tried to hide it - "masks don't work" until China had finished stocking up - Now that it's out they are spamming chaff to maximize the damage to China's economic competitors And let's not forget - "We've already talked about China"

Some mask material effectiveness comparisons.

https://youtu.be/DnJLAvsCGZU Making something like this would be interesting. Make it split into 4 jaws of sorts, rubber lining on each edge, mechanical latches holding it locked tight, or even electromagnets! But that might be pretty power consuming

>>4842 Not that there is a real reason to wear masks for corona, it has such a small death rate. But now that its socially acceptable, and mandatory in some places, why not make the best of it?

>>4838 They have never stopped being globalist dogs, who consider themselves above any nation state. They were caught after clandestinely sterilizing thousands of women using hCG disguised as "anti-tetanus vaccine" in Kenya and other countries, by injecting hCG at 3 month intervals, instead of 1-10 year intervals. The women were rendered infertile. It seems they are executing a worldwide population cull now, deliberately spreading SARS-CoV-2 to sterilize or kill infected men, and their "vaccines" sterilizing the rest. Be extremely doubtful of any "vaccine" they provide for SARS-CoV-2, especially if they require repeated doses in less than 6 months. Especially if they try to make it mandatory. The only way to beat them is to not catch SARS-CoV-2 and not take their vaccine in any circumstance. The best way to not catch SARS-CoV-2 is to wear a face mask for respiratory protection. A face mask at 95% filtration efficiency works better than ANY vaccine, because it always works regardless if the virus mutates, and it has no horrific side effects. Wearing a face mask is the only practical way to reduce R0 below 1 and eradicate SARS-CoV-2. This pandemic will only end if >95% of people wear face masks for at least 3 months.

>>4844 >after clandestinely sterilizing thousands of women using hCG disguised as "anti-tetanus vaccine" "Allegedly" sterilizing thousands of women, there is no conclusive evidence that they really did sterilize thousands of women but there was so much corruption regarding this case that if you bother to look into this case you will find it very suspicious.The important things to note regarding this case are: 1. This vaccine was given women who were capable of having children older women & men were not given this vaccine 2. There were corrupt practices occurring in the lab that was required to prove that this vaccine did not cause sterilization of women https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_KT7aqcJW8 >Be extremely doubtful of any "vaccine" they provide for SARS-CoV-2, especially if they require repeated doses in less than 6 months. Especially if they try to make it mandatory. I agree with this but they might not make it mandatory as it might cause people to resist vaccination, the best way to vaccinate a large amount of people is by linking vaccination to universal basic income,travel,healthcare insurance,education etc through a digital biometric ID system.You want benefits?want to travel? need education ? show me your digital vaccination ID!!! >This pandemic will only end if >95% of people wear face masks for at least 3 months. Making people wear mask is not about disease prevention its about fear mongering,making people docile & obedient .You accepted bullshit lockdowns,mandatory face masks & the bailouts for billionaires & oligarch ruling class while the working class & small businesses got fuarrrked.We complied & obeyed & will continue to do so

>>4846 >the government is corrupt, rich people are in control of everything, and the response to the disease was so buffoonishly incompetent as to be criminally negligent >actually tho the problem is masks

>>4846 >I agree with this but they might not make it mandatory as it might cause people to resist vaccination, the best way to vaccinate a large amount of people is by linking vaccination to universal basic income,travel,healthcare insurance,education etc through a digital biometric ID system.You want benefits?want to travel? need education ? show me your digital vaccination ID!!! That was the plan long ago its already happening, i dont know which states have already mandated vaccinations, looking at how violent the united states is it follows that will drag people out their homes and shoot them up wherever they can do it. They already have id2020 and the central banks are in on it, once the change to digital cash will go over most of the sheeple will just get their id chip and follow their orders blindly. Dont worry about any virus, worry about the establishment, if you are living in any city and rely on their system youre pretty much fuarrrked in the long run. But i wouldnt worry too much, its not the older people they are after, its the young people they want. That is why they pushing all this digital soykaf, the smartphone culture and all its adhd degeneration. Soon they will change the school system and the younger generations will not imagine a world where people dont wear masks and not everything is digitized and monitored. Once transhumanism becomes the dominating social dogma humanity is finished and its coming sooner than you think.

>>4839 All this particle-size mask penetration tests reminded me about old anecdote about latex condoms and HIV: virion is smaller than pores therefore it can infect, or virion is not transmitted separately from water, which surface tension prevents it from going through such small pores.

I haye it when good threads get taken over by FUD-artists.

How to create DIY N95-equivalent face masks for respiratory protection against SARS-CoV-2 N95 respirators are rated to filter at least 95% of all particles 0.3 microns or smaller. This includes SARS-CoV-2 at 0.05-0.2 microns. Wearing an N95 is an extremely effective way to avoid being infected by SARS-CoV-2. In case of shortage of commercial N95 respirators, it's very easy to construct an N95-equivalent or superior face mask using common, cheap materials. N95-equivalent filtration can be achieved by using multiple layers of cheap, imperfect filters, instead of a single, expensive polypropylene filter layer used in commercial N95 respirators. Basically, the more layers a filter has, the greater its filtration efficiency. Net filtration efficiency = 1 - ((1 - filtration efficiency of layer)^layers) Paper towel filters 30% of all particles 0.3 microns or smaller, 2 layers of paper towel filters 51%, 3 layers filter 65.7%, 4 layers 75.9%, 5 layers 83.1%, 6 layers 88.2%, 7 layers 91.7%, 8 layers 94.2%, 9 layers 95.9% By using 9 layers of paper towel as the filter, it's easy to make a face mask that is equivalent to an N95. In fact, it's even possible to create an N100-equivalent just by adding more layers, 13 layers leads to 99.0% filtration efficiency. The only disadvantage to this technique is that pressure drop of 9 layers of paper towel is higher than 1 layer of polypropylene, thus it's harder to breathe through this face mask than a commercial N95. But there is a way to reduce pressure drop by increasing the total filter cross-section area. Imagine breathing through a narrow straw versus a wide pipe, it takes far more effort to breathe through the straw because it is narrower and thus its pressure drop is higher than the pipe. If you place equivalent filters over one end of the straw and the pipe, it's still easier to breathe through the pipe than the straw, but both are have the same filter and are equal in filtration efficiency. By drawing air through a larger surface area filter, the total pressure drop is reduced proportional to the surface area of the filter. Therefore, to make it easier to breathe through a face mask, increase the size of the face mask. Use the widest pieces of paper towel available to construct the largest diameter dome mask possible. Seal the edges around the gap between the face mask and your face with tape to prevent air leaks. Verify that all air is passing through the filter by placing your hand over the face mask and feeling if the air is flowing through the face mask when you are inhaling and exhaling. You can use other porous materials for the filter, for example 19 layers of T-shirt cotton at 15% filtration efficiency per layer will achieve the same 95% filtration efficiency as the 9 layers of paper towel. 3 surgical face masks will achieve 98.4% filtration efficiency. You can boost the efficiency of the filter material you use by soaking and drying it in 40% salt water solution. The hydroscopic salt coating will increase the ability of the filter to absorb cough aerosols, and the salt will destroy SARS-CoV-2 within a minute from recrystallization.

>>4846 The conclusive evidence is that the who explicitly developed and declared TT/bhCG as an anti-fertility vaccine in 1976, and first used it in 1994 in Mexico, Philippines and Nicaragua. They are still attempting to develop a recombinant anti-fertility vaccine that causes permanent sterility. In Kenya, they required the "anti-tetanus vaccine" to be placed under police escort at all times, and all unused vials to be returned to the who. They covered up the TT/bhCG by sending fake samples with bhCG for regulatory testing, which did not match the "anti-tetanus vaccine" that was actually used. >I agree with this but they might not make it mandatory as it might cause people to resist vaccination, the best way to vaccinate a large amount of people is by linking vaccination to universal basic income,travel,healthcare insurance,education etc through a digital biometric ID system.You want benefits?want to travel? need education ? show me your digital vaccination ID!!! https://www.mintpressnews.com/africa-trust-stamp-covid-19-vaccine-record-payment-system/269346/ >Africa to Become Testing Ground for “Trust Stamp” Vaccine Record and Payment System >A new biometric identity platform partnered with the Gates-funded GAVI vaccine alliance and Mastercard will launch in West Africa and combine COVID-19 vaccinations, cashless payments, and potential law enforcement applications. >Indeed, the GAVI alliance, largely funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates and Rockefeller Foundations, as well as allied governments and the vaccine industry, is principally concerned with improving “the health of markets for vaccines and other immunization products,” rather than the health of individuals, according to its own website. Similarly, Mastercard’s GAVI partnership is directly linked to its “World Beyond Cash” effort, which mainly bolsters its business model that has long depended on a reduction in the use of physical cash. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/who-funds-world-health-organization-un-coronavirus-pandemic-covid-trump/ >The US is the biggest single donor to the Geneva-based WHO. It contributed more than $400 million in 2019, roughly 15% of the WHO's annual budget. >The second-largest funder is the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, which provides 9.8% of the WHO's funds. 228.9 million in 2018. gates' sponsored GAVI alliance also donated approximately 158.5 million. Together, gates is the largest voluntary funder of the who at 387.4 million. >Making people wear mask is not about disease prevention its about fear mongering,making people docile & obedient You should use respiratory protection against an novel airborne virus no matter what they tell you, just based on the precautionary principle alone. And they aren't telling you anything, they are proven liars in every statement they have made on SARS-CoV-2. Even the mortality rate statistics are undercounting. You won't be able to fight them if you do not have your health. Do not allow yourself to become infected by a virus they are spreading. If you are wondering what they are predicting, check Event 201, the gates sponsored simulation of a SARS-like coronavirus pandemic with 10% mortality rate and R0 of 2 conducted in October 2019. They modeled 65 million lives lost, and the virus becoming endemic. The spanner in the works is that they didn't account for public face mask usage, because it seems like the best scientists that money could buy all told them that "masks don't work" And that is why they will be defeated.

>>4870 Stop derailing the thread >you guys are suppose to be cyberpunks but most people now behave like cyberKARENs. How's it not cyberpunk to fuarrrk with facial recognition cameras?

>>4870 Yeah I mean the strongest argument against mandatory masking is it just gives the cops more excuses they can use to toss poor people in jail. They already disproportionately throw poor people in jail for drug violations vs rich people (controlling for how many rich vs poor people are drug users). Same deal with everything from seatbelt laws to zoning violations. There's no reason to expect mask laws to be different.

>>4849 we'll see, it seems as though the ruling class of the US doesn't know what they're doing. You need at least 30% of the population to be complacent to run a society, and with indoctrination and suppression you can trim that down to 10 or 5%. But wealth is being funneled into high places at a massive rate and the US ruling class seems to have forgotten how to rule, forgotten that they have to give out table scraps or the Poors will kill them. The cracks show more and more every day. Radical political ideologies are gaining ground quickly. As many as 30 million people could become homeless in the next month. It's a recipe for disaster. Meanwhile China is the only other global hegemon and it's hard to tell how stable they are. Anyway. This is a thread about masks. >>4865 has some very good advice, although paper towels aren't the best. Felt cloth is good, like the kind you would use to polish metal. It's more durable.

>>4874 *complicit, not complacent A much higher percentage of the population needs to be complacent. Almost all.

>>4874 *complicit, not complacent A much higher percentage of the population needs to be complacent. Almost all.

>>4849 >Once transhumanism becomes the dominating social dogma humanity is finished and its coming sooner than you think. What they are doing is not transhumanism, it's subhuman degeneracy. They aren't making people live longer or be more capable, they are crippling, maiming and sterilizing them through wars, grs, drugs and anti-fertility vaccines. Soon they will be euthanising too. They are literally trying to turn humans into livestock. There is nothing enlightened about their evil, it's just how a beast would behave when consuming their prey. They are not superior, they live as the lowest form of life does, and they are trying to drag humanity down with them. >>4870 No law which causes you bodily harm can ever be valid. Just break the law and let the jury decide. But it's still a good idea to prevent a pandemic at all costs by using personal protective equipment and practicing basic etiquete and hygiene. If coughing in someone's face kills them, no jury is going to think that you were just exercising your rights and are completely innocent. We are people, not monsters or robots. We should try to save each other's lives. >>4874 Ponzi schemes cannot last forever, and if you built your economy and currency on fractional reserve and fiat, neither can your country.

Additional notes for DIY N95-equivalent face masks If needed, sterilize the face mask after use by dry heating in an oven at 70 C for 30 minutes. This procedure is shown to quickly destroy SARS-CoV-2, and does not damage the filter material. You can also wash the face mask in detergent if the filter material is water-resistant like T-shirt cotton. The filtration efficiency estimates are for the worst case scenario of particles at 0.3 microns. Larger particles like cough aerosols are closer to 2 microns, and filtration efficiency of 2 micron particles is substantially higher by an order of magnitude. For example, 1 layer of paper towel filters 96% of particles at 1 micron, 9 layers of paper towel filters 99.999999999973%.

Table of filter materials with filtration efficiency at .3 microns equal or greater than an N95 (95%) 3 layers surgical face mask, 98.43% 2 layers HEPA filter, 97.75% 4 layers HERO coffee filter, 97.91% 5 layers 400 nylon, 96.54% 5 layers CHEMEX coffee filter, 96.54% 5 layers 1.0-1.2 mm canvas, 96.54% 5 layers kitchen towel, 96.19% 8 layers paper towel, 95.93% 9 layers 0.7-0.8 mm canvas, 96.45% 9 layers 10-ply 0.6-0.8mm denim, 95.41% 11 layers 100% cotton 120 thread bed sheet, 95.11% 13 layers 100% cotton 80 thread bed sheet, 95.33% 15 layers 0.4-0.5 mm canvas, 95.76% 15 layers Scott's Blue Shop Towel, 95.76% 19 layers 100% cotton T-shirt, 95.44% 20 layers bra pad, 95.10% 22 layers velvet synthetic fiber, 95.32% 24 layers 70D nylon, 95.34% 26 layers non-woven polypropylene bag, 95.16% 36 layers 100% merino wool scarf, 95.02% 42 layers 3M disposable floor cleaning cloth, 95.25% 42 layers dusting cloth, 95.25% 42 layers synthetic brocade sheet, 95.25% 42 layers quick dry 95% polyester 5% spandex T-shirt, 95.25% 49 layers 100% cashmere wool scarf, 95.17% 99 layers 100% remie light scarf, 95.09% 149 layers neckwarmer, 95.07% 149 layers bandana, 95.07% Table of filter materials with filtration efficiency at .3 microns equal or greater than an N100 (99%) 2 layers N95, 99.74% 3 layers HEPA filter, 99.66% 4 layers surgical face mask, 99.60% 5 layers HERO coffee filter, 99.20% 7 layers 400 nylon, 99.10% 7 layers CHEMEX coffee filter, 99.10% 7 layers 1.0-1.2 mm canvas, 99.10% 8 layers kitchen towel, 99.46% 12 layers paper towel, 99.18% 13 layers 0.7-0.8 mm canvas, 99.19% 14 layers 10-ply 0.6-0.8mm denim, 99.17% 17 layers 100% cotton 120 thread bed sheet, 99.05% 20 layers 100% cotton 80 thread bed sheet, 99.10% 22 layers 0.4-0.5 mm canvas, 99.03% 22 layers Scott's Blue Shop Towel, 99.03% 29 layers 100% cotton T-shirt, 99.10% 31 layers bra pad, 99.06% 34 layers velvet synthetic fiber, 99.12% 37 layers 70D nylon, 99.11% 40 layers non-woven polypropylene bag, 99.05% 56 layers 100% merino wool scarf, 99.06% 64 layers 3M disposable floor cleaning cloth, 99.03% 64 layers dusting cloth, 99.03% 64 layers synthetic brocade sheet, 99.03% 64 layers quick dry 95% polyester 5% spandex T-shirt, 99.03% 75 layers 100% cashmere wool scarf, 99.03% 152 layers 100% remie light scarf, 99.02% 228 layers neckwarmer, 99.00% 228 layers bandana, 99.00% Use these formulas to find minimum layers needed to match N95 or N100 filter layers needed for N95 = ln(1 - .95) / ln(1 - filtration efficiency of layer)] filter layers needed for N100 = ln(1 - .99) / ln(1 - filtration efficiency of layer)] It is quite feasible to breathe through 12 layers of paper towel or 16 layers of T-shirt, though the insulation of that many layers seems to trap heat.

>>4959 Where did you get this table from?

>>4959 Nothing about non woven microfiber cloth? That is closest I can think of to what n95s are made of.

>>4962 >>4963 All filtration efficiencies are calculated from >>4296, if you can find the filtration efficiency at .3 microns (PM0.3) for non woven microfiber cloth, it can easily be calculated as well. But the point of this filtration technique is that it doesn't matter how effective a single layer is, when you can increase it to any efficiency level using sufficient layers. To find the number of layers required, solve the net filtration efficiency equation for layers. Net filtration efficiency = 1 - ((1 - filtration efficiency of layer)^layers) layers = ln(1 - Net filtration efficiency) / ln(1 - filtration efficiency of layer) For Net filtration efficiency, use either .95 for 95% N95, or .99 for 99% N100. filter layers needed for N95 = ln(1 - .95) / ln(1 - filtration effiency of layer) filter layers needed N100 = ln(1 - .99) / ln(1 - filtration efficiency of layer) For filtration efficiency of layer, use the particle filtration efficiency at .3 microns of a single layer of the filter material you are using. For paper towel, that is .33 or 33%. layers of paper towel needed for N95 = ln(1 - .95) / ln(1 - .33) = 7.48 Round up the filter layers needed to find minimum number of layers required to achieve an N95 or N100-equivalent filter. layers of paper towel needed for N95 = 8 Finally, to verify this value, enter it into the net filtration efficiency equation. Net filtration efficiency of 8 layers paper towel = 1 - ((1 - .33)^8) = .9593 = 95.93%

>>4966 Breathability is a factor too though. I think that's calculated by resistance somehow.

>>4969 Breathability can be increased to any level, just by increasing the surface area of the filter to a sufficiently large size to reduce the pressure drop of the face mask. Using wide sheets for the filter, shaping the filter as a fractal cone or corrugating the filter will all increase the surface area and breathability. DIY face masks can easily have equal filtration efficiency and breathability compared to a commercial N95, N99 or N100, just by being thicker and wider to compensate for a less efficient filter material. If you really want to find the best material, the most important filter material specification to maximize would be PM0.3 filtration efficiency / pressure drop

>>4959 Must correct this table, the filtration efficiency of N100 is not 99%, that would be N99 or FFP3. N100 actually has 99.97% filtration efficiency, which can be matched by 5 layers HEPA filter, 6 layers surgical face mask, 21 layers paper towel, or 50 layers T-shirt.

Table of N100-equivalent (99.97% PM0.3) filter materials 3 layers N95, 99.99% 5 layers HEPA filter, 99.99% 6 layers surgical face mask, 99.98% 9 layers HERO coffee filter, 99.98% 13 layers 40D nylon, 99.98% 13 layers CHEMEX coffee filter, 99.98% 13 layers 1.0-1.2mm canvas, 99.98% 13 layers kitchen towel, 99.98% 21 layers paper towel, 99.98% 22 layers 0.7-0.8mm canvas, 99.97% 24 layers 10-ply 0.6-0.8mm denim, 99.97% 30 layers 100% cotton 120 thread bedsheet, 99.97% 35 layers 100% cotton 80 thread bedsheet, 99.97% 39 layers 0.4-0.5mm canvas, 99.97% 39 layers Scott's Blue Shop Towel, 99.97% 50 layers 100% cotton T-shirt, 99.97% 54 layers bra pad, 99.97% 59 layers velvet synthetic fiber, 99.97% 64 layers 70D nylon, 99.97% 70 layers non-woven polypropylene bag, 99.97% 98 layers 100% Merino wool scarf, 99.97% 112 layers 3M disposable floor cleaning cloth, 99.97% 112 layers dusting cloth, 99.97% 112 layers synthetic brocade sheet, 99.97% 112 layers 95% polyester 5% spandex quick dry T-shirt, 99.97% 132 layers 100% cashmere wool scarf, 99.97% 267 layers 100% Remie light scarf, 99.97% 402 layers 100% microfiber polyester neckwarmer, 99.97% 402 layers 100% cotton bandana, 99.97% This is the corrected table for N100, previous table in >>4959 for N100 is actually for N99 (99% PM0.3) N100 is equal to the HEPA filters used for BSL-3 and BSL-4 labs.

If SHTF to the point that paper and cotton cloth are no longer available, you can still create N95-equivalent face mask filters from activated charcoal powder or your own hair. Just char any organic material, preferably hair, by heating it in a mostly sealed container until it chars into carbon, then compress it into a sheet and use it as filter. Use as thick of a sheet as possible to maximize filtration efficiency. This activated charcoal will also filter and protect from every CBRN weapon that exists.

You seem like decent folk here >>4238 Buy a mask in January or before. If you didn't do so, wear anything and carry hand sanitizer with you! The virus is airborne HIV, a bioweapon attack from CCP China. >Less than 1% die from it! Less than 1% develop full blown AIDS immediately and die from it. There will be SHTF when this comes out over the next year or so. Masks have worked for centuries. The lie about masks not working was to take peoples' freedoms with universal house arrest for all. Yes sadly, most governments see this attack as an opportunity rather than hostility. It was no accident that the majority of countries used lockdowns before masks, which goes against common sense. Use joss stick smoke to check for air ventilation gaps if you need to seal a room, but be aware you can suffocate if there is no ventilation. War will be underway or visibly escalated tensions by Christmas, even though many are doing a lot to avoid it. It has already become an inevitability. Good luck!

>>4992 >You seem like decent folk here Thanks. >carry hand sanitizer with you! Unnecessary. Ordinary soap kills coronavirus very effectively. >The virus is airborne HIV, a bioweapon attack from CCP China. Untrue. All legitimate research points to naturally occuring wild bat virus. >Masks have worked for centuries. True. >The lie about masks not working was to take peoples' freedoms with universal house arrest for all. Sounds delusional. >It was no accident that the majority of countries used lockdowns before masks, which goes against common sense. Most authorities were trying to save masks for healthcare professionals who needed them most at first. Then production ramped up and lockdowns flattened the infection curve, making more masks available for average people. >Use joss stick smoke to check for air ventilation gaps if you need to seal a room, but be aware you can suffocate if there is no ventilation. Rooms should be well-ventilated for best protection against infections. >War will be underway or visibly escalated tensions by Christmas, even though many are doing a lot to avoid it. It has already become an inevitability. Delusional (again). >Good luck! thanks, you too.

>>5004 >Most authorities were trying to save masks for healthcare professionals who needed them most at first. Then production ramped up and lockdowns flattened the infection curve, making more masks available for average people. To be fair this isn't exactly what the WHO said. They mentioned this concern, but also said there is no evidence that universal masking is effective, a position that was not significantly revised even in later guidance. Maybe the WHO is not to be trusted?

>>5004 >Sounds delusional. That's so 2019 bro! Get with the times, it's the 2020's now. "Tomorrow is Christmas day, and the majority of people on the planet will not be allowed to go outside in a few months." sounded delusional in 2019.

>>4992 Everyone in apartments or shared quarters should tape HEPA or N95-equivalent filters on the air intakes and ventilation. This prevents any possible contamination from shared air during activities without respiratory protection, such as eating or sleeping. There is no good reason you can't put 8 layers of paper towel over a vent, door gap or air-conditioning unit. >The virus is airborne HIV, a bioweapon attack from CCP China. This a world where 1984 came true, armed conflicts between Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia are completely meaningless. The top 1% of each superstate are in alliance with each other against the 99%. Any war only exists to waste resources and weaken the people, pitting 33% of world population against 33% and 33%, to ensure they don't fight the 1%. Weapons of Mass Destruction are for the 1% to use against the 99%. Those who still believe the billionaires are trying to save them, are in store for a very rude awakening.

>>5004 Zoonotic transmission theory from bats is improbable. Bats aren't sold at the Wuhan Wet Market, and the closest genome RaTbG13 is only 96% similar to SARS-CoV-2, over 50 years of evolutionary distance. SARS-CoV-2 is perfectly adapted for humans, not bats. Spike protein has a HIV furin cleavage site insertion unlike RaTbG13. GM suppression is wrong for a zoonotically transmitted human virus. Aerosols containing SARS-CoV-2 are infectious for much longer than SARS-CoV, 14 hours vs 8. Capable of infecting almost every human cell, even macrophages. Destroys CD4, CD8 T-cells and B cells. Most evidence supports SARS-CoV-2 being produced by Gain-of-Function.

>>5004 >Ordinary soap kills coronavirus very effectively Yeah but you need water and a sink for that. >>5013 Sounds like some dunning-kruger gobbledygook to me. I listened to an interview with some of the people who have been researching this stuff since SARS and basically a large portion of the population in that area is infected with various strains of corona viruses, but most of them are fairly harmless and humans are dead end hosts. They catch them by exploring bat caves for fun, going there to drink and/or shoot heroin, etc. It was only a matter of time before some unlucky bastard caught a "bad" strain.

>>5013 It didn't go directly bat to human but bat to pangolin to human is current hypothesis. There is zero scientific evidence it's an engineered virus and only evidence showing it isn't and it occured naturally.

>>5015 Then you should be able to find wild-type SARS-CoV-2 or a highly similar strain in bats, just by collecting enough samples the precursor strain to SARS-CoV-2 will be eventually found. It should only take a couple dozen guano samples to find a strain with higher than 96% similarity. Of course, that is only if SARS-CoV-2 were actually zoonotically transmitted to humans from bats. >Yeah but you need water and a sink for that. Rub fine table salt instead, it destroys SARS-CoV-2 within minutes.

>>5022 >Then you should be able to find wild-type SARS-CoV-2 or a highly similar strain in bats, just by collecting enough samples the precursor strain to SARS-CoV-2 will be eventually found I mean yeah, they've found all kinds of viruses with various levels of similarity to the novel corona virus. >It should only take a couple dozen guano samples to find a strain with higher than 96% similarity What does that even mean? Haven't you heard about human and chimpanzee DNA being 98% the same? (apparently that is a myth but it's still like 85-95% the same which I think illustrates how useless that sort of comparison is) Here's a random article from 20 seconds googling: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-28/new-coronavirus-turns-out-to-be-decades-old-in-small-bats >Rub fine table salt instead, it destroys SARS-CoV-2 within minutes. Supposing I take your word for it, why would I do that when I can get a big bottle of proven-to-work isopropyl alcohol for $2 at any store and it evaporates instead of coating the floor in little salt granules?

>>5015 >SARS-CoV-2 proven gain of function >Sounds like some dunning-kruger gobbledygook to me. >science is gobbledygook OK. >I listened to an interview Should have read some of the research papers being published about it too. (4 chan archives would have many papers listed as they've been discussing them too over the last half year. I can't be bothered to parse through mine looking for specific paragraphs to win meaningless internet points). >>5013 is correct. It is airborne HIV. Not everyone develops AIDS immediately.

>>5024 Please don't refer to your crackpot kook theories as science. >4 chan archives would have many papers listed Ah yes, the old channel four archives, the leading repository for peer reviewed cutting edge research.

>>5023 >why would I do that when I can get a big bottle of proven-to-work isopropyl alcohol for $2 at any store Alcohol is not reusable, it costs more and governments are rationing it. There are states forbidding the sale of isopropyl alcohol to anyone without a medical license. >they've found all kinds of viruses with various levels of similarity to the novel corona virus. The full RNA genome of RaTG13 is 96% identical to SARS-CoV-2, but that's 50 years of natural evolutionary distance. Assuming RaTG13 or another similar strain evolved into SARS-CoV-2, as required by the zoonotic transmission theory, then it should be possible to find every single predecessor virus with genomic similarities to SARS-CoV-2 between 96% and 100%. There is no good reason any of the virus with 97%, 98%, or 99% similarity have not been found yet, especially if they have been supposedly circulating for decades. The chance of finding a virus with a given similarity to SARS-CoV-2 should follow a Gaussian distribution, several dozen random samples should result in at least one of them being more than 96% identical, therefore a evolutionary intermediary between RaTG13 and SARS-CoV-2. It would incredibly improbable (<5% chance) to not find a sample with greater than 96% similarity, given a sufficiently large sample size.

In case anyone still believes the who is not trying to kill them... https://healthpolicy-watch.news/theres-no-evidence-of-food-borne-transmission-of-covid-19-says-who/ >There is ‘no evidence’ that the SARS-CoV-2 virus can be transmitted in food or on food packaging, said the World Health Organization on Thursday. >WHO’s Executive Director of Health Emergencies Mike Ryan made the comments in response to reports that a dozen frozen chicken wings imported into China’s southern city of Shenzhen tested positive for COVID-19, sparking concern that contaminated food could spur outbreaks of the coronavirus.

>>5029 >Alcohol is not reusable Wait, so you expect me to rub my hands with a mixture of salt, sweat, grime, dead skin cells and poo particles where the salt content is ever decreasing? >it should be possible to find every single predecessor virus with genomic similarities to SARS-CoV-2 between 96% and 100% Maybe, assuming you catch every bat in the province and shove a q tip up its nose. Are you volunteering for this job? >The chance of finding a virus with a given similarity to SARS-CoV-2 should follow a Gaussian distribution Do you have any evidence for that assertion?

>>5030 I've come to regard "there is no evidence" as a sign that a scientist is trying to feed you a line. You can promote a particular viewpoint without having to actually do any experiments or back up your assertions. "there is no evidence smoking causes cancer", "there is no evidence roundup kills bees", etc.

>>5034 in both of those cases there actually is overwhelming evidence, and only a tiny minority of scientists believe those claims.

>>5037 Before there was overwhelming evidence, there was no evidence and a lot of people did their best to keep it that way. The point I am making is that "there is no evidence" sounds like you are saying the claim isn't true, but what you're actually saying is that you don't know what you're talking about. Very useful for promoting a particular viewpoint without outright lying.

>>5041 So you're just going to gloss over how evidence is overwhelmingly supportive of a natural virus? The statement of no evidence to support what you were claiming is only to further back up that there is evidence strongly against it. Sounds like you just don't understand so you're making things up to feel like you know what you're talking about.

https://doi.org/10.1002/bies.202000091 >Unless the intermediate host necessary for completing a natural zoonotic jump is identified, the dual-use gain-of-function research practice of viral serial passage should be considered a viable route by which the novel coronavirus arose. The practice of serial passage mimics a natural zoonotic jump, and offers explanations for SARS-CoV-2’s distinctive spike-protein region and its unexpectedly high affinity for angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE2), as well as the notable polybasic furin cleavage site within it. >the artificial generations added by forced serial passage creates the artificial appearance of evolutionary distance, which was the characteristic of the H1N1 Swine Flu Soviet leak in the 1970s that lead researchers to conclude it had been constructed in a lab, and is exactly what is found with SARS-CoV-2, which is distant enough from any other virus that it has been placed in its own clade. >And just like influenza viruses are only able to preserve their furin cleavages in artificial environments since the heightened virulence they impart kills their hosts before they can propagate in a natural setting, based on the known taxonomy lineage B coronaviruses do not appear to be able to support furin cleavages in nature. >a study published March 2018 that examined people who live in villages about a kilometer away from bat caves. This study revealed that only 2.7% of those villagers had antibodies indicating any past exposure to bat coronaviruses. The authors also sampled people living in Wuhan, and found no evidence of exposure to SARS-CoV-like coronaviruses at all. https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.05.01.073262 The pairwise comparisons of dN and dS, alongside a dearth of signs of emerging adaptive mutations, suggest that by the time SARS-CoV-2 was first detected in late 2019, it was already well adapted for human transmission to an extent more similar to late epidemic than to early-to-mid epidemic SARS-CoV. >In comparison to the SARS-CoV epidemic, the SARS-CoV-2 epidemic appears to be missing an early phase during which the virus would be expected to accumulate adaptive mutations for human transmission. However, if this were the origin story of SARS-CoV-2, there is a surprising absence of precursors or branches emerging from a less recent, less adapted common ancestor among humans and animals. In the case of SARS-CoV, the less human-adapted SARS-CoV progenated multiple branches of evolution in both humans and animals (Figure 1, Figure 5). In contrast, SARS-CoV-2 appeared without peer in late 2019, suggesting that there was a single introduction of the human-adapted form of the virus into the human population. >The S of RaTG13 is also capable of binding to human ACE2 although the virus does not infect humans >It is therefore unlikely for the January market isolates, which all share 99.9-100% genome and S identity with a December human SARS-CoV-2, to have originated from an intermediate animal host, particularly if the most recent common ancestor jumped into humans as early as October, 2019 (54,55). The SARS-CoV-2 genomes in the market samples were most likely from humans infected with SARS-CoV-2 who were vendors or visitors at the market. If intermediate animal hosts were present at the market, no evidence remains in the genetic samples available. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(18)30006-9/fulltext >On Dec 19, 2017, the US National Institutes of Health (NIH) announced that they would resume funding gain-of-function experiments involving influenza, Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus, and severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus. https://doi.org/10.1080/22221751.2020.1719902 >The evolutionary distances were computed using the Poisson correction method and were in the units of the number of amino acid substitutions per site https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9781483227344500176 >The observed rate (the probability) of amino acid substitutions is to be divided by the number of residues in the polypeptide chain. In hemoglobin chains, if we accept the provisional figure (Table I X ) of one evolutionarily effective mutation per 7 million years, we find that the chance for any given site to undergo an evolutionarily effective mutation along a given line of descent is on the average about 1 in 1 billion years.

Before I forget I discovered kinesthesology tape makes for an easy way to form a better seal around surgical masks. Two strips is enough to fully encase around the top and bottom and bending it to cover the sides entirely as well. It probably isn't as good as an n95 but better than a mask with air flow open to the sides and top. Because it's elastic you can speak normally without worry the speaking will dislodge the seal. It also makes it so glasses don't fog up so easily so this makes it so wearing eye protection is easier to do.

>>4826 >The evidence for surgical face masks to prevent the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 is conclusive. It's conclusive for that sample. The lack of standard error is fuarrrking infuriating with these studies. It can be p=0.00000001 and still be bullshit if the sample isn't representative of the whole, especially given that it's an animal study.

The smaller they are (microns), the more prone they are to stick to surface. Your problem is the virus wouldn't be essentially just the virus floating around which is impossible to happen but rather clusters contained in medium or large droplets coming from the infected. Face shields are pretty based IMO and you won't look stupid with them when you know it would literally block all the large droplets and they're at greater risk than you, you're left with medium and small droplets but small ones tend to stick to static electricity charged surfaces easily, medium droplets would probably pass through but not if you had multiple layers like from that of an N95 or a N100 respirator. The cleaning method is the problem though as it would discharge it upon contact to harsh chemicals or surfaces. You may use atomizer with approved cleaning agent, UV, and extreme heat. The catch is you have to statically charge the surface/layers of it. I'm kinda skeptical to buy Nnumber masks as they're probably recycled from the covid hotspot

>>5228 A P-value of <.05 means that the observed result is at least 2 standard deviations away from the expected result. If the expected result is 66.7%, and the observed result is 25%, and the p-value is .05, then the standard deviation is is (66.7-25) / 2 = 20.85%, which you can consider the standard error of the expected value. You get the standard deviation from assuming expected result should follow a Gaussian distribution. The proportion of the control group will give you standard deviation. A reasonable assumption since the trials are independent and equal probability. >>5262 Sterilize any contaminated face masks or equipment using an autoclave, 75 C for 30 minutes is the current guideline for disinfecting N95 respirators from SARS-CoV-2. UV is another alternative, but using liquid disinfectants or steam will damage N95 filtration efficiency. You must use respiratory protection, not just a face shield, because face shields do not block airborne transmission.

I don't know about you, but there are no genuine surgical masks available in my country right now. Even the surgical masks we purchased for our medics turned out to all be chinese bootlegs and weren't even tested by anyone, in either country. Political corruption is fuarrrked. Instead of duct-taping fabrics, 3D-printing, or whatever other improvisations, it turns out respirators are actually still available here, and are much more likely to be genuine. You have to buy filters, people can't understand you for soykaf when you're talking with one, and you probably couldn't wear one all day - but I'd recommend them if you want actual protection, especially in higher-risk locations.

>>5294 I got myself a good soviet gas mask and plenty of filters long ago. I think everyone should have a gas mask, ammunition, canned food, and a cache of potable water. You never know what's going to happen. Of course I don't mean getting into the insane levels that certain preppers do. I don't have stacks of more guns and ammo than the Sinaloa cartel, just a little cache for hunting and maybe self-defense. The surplus Russian masks are as cheap as those respirators and obviously far more effective. Might still not be meant for viral agents, but still better than those jokey little non-medical cloth thongs people have been pretending might help against covid. I don't think people under 60 need any of this crap, though. I do like having the mask around for when my town starts getting flooded with clouds of teargas, though. It sure helps for those days. Wear a big enough hood with a fur trim and be careful about which direction you're facing and you can avoid having the wrong people seeing that you've got a full mask on.

>>5297 >soviet gas mask I hope you got modern filters like the polish P-5, otherwise you risk inhaling asbestos from the filter.

>>5298 Oh yeah, obviously not using the cold war filters. Thanks for checking btw

>>5294 I started using one of these, because the n95s I get for work make my face feel like fiberglass after 10+ hours of wear, and they get sweaty and are uncomfortable. Plus I dont trust the stuff I get from work, as all the boxes are marked as chinese made and they seem to be worse than the genuine ones I used to use. I used to wear the 3M half face rubber to paint with, but what most people dont realize is that they are compatible with 100% particle block (P100 I think is the rating) or the same as N95 filter cartridges. I have worn the rubber ones for 10+ hours no problem. I just wish it had a drinking tube, and I can confirm the talking is hard to do. >>5297 Surplus is also questionable quality, as the storage and age of masks and cartridges is questionable.

>>5300 Don't use the old cartridges as said above. Testing is easy, you can look up the manual of methods for it. Surplus is fine, and often far better in quality than a lot of the cheap Chinese junk you get today. Mine is Belarussian. Not the best ever, but adequate.

How to make DIY Powered Air Purifying Respirator (PAPR) DIY Powered Air Purifying Respirator made from a computer cooling fan and paper filter that provides HEPA filtration (99.97% PM0.3). It has a positive-pressure ventilation hole over the mouth that allows eating food, while still preventing unfiltered air from entering. This DIY Powered Air Purifying Respirator is meant to last for 10 years of continuous use, and costs less than 20 USD. It provides BSL-3 protection against airborne pathogens, and continues to provide full protection while eating. It does not any require any additional exertion to breathe, and can be used while exercising. It is powered by a power bank battery with enough energy for at least 10-20 hours of operation between recharges. Materials required 1x CPU fan 1x USB powerbank 30 cm plastic tubing, largest diameter available Plastic full face mask 21x paper towels, soaked and dried in 20% saline solution if possible Tape Aluminum foil Make a full face mask from a large transparent plastic jar by cutting out a hemispheric bowl shape large enough to cover your face, or at least your mouth and nose. You can heat and bend plastic into a bowl shape by using an oven or hairdryer. You can also use a plastic bag to make a hood, or even better use a motorcycle-style full head helmet. Cut a single small 3 cm hole over the mouth of the full face mask, large enough for a spoon, fork, chopstick and straw. This is also the ventilation hole for the PAPR. Connect the CPU fan to the powerbank, and place it in the plastic tubing, blowing inwards. If it does not fit, create an airtight fitting between the CPU fan and the tubing by wrapping the end of the fan and the end of the tube with aluminum foil sealed with tape to make a funnel. Connect the output end of the plastic tubing to the full face mask. Place the 21x layers of paper towel over the other intake end of the plastic tubing. Secure and seal the paper towel with tape around the edges. Seal all other joints with tape as well. Any leaks will not draw in unfiltered air, only leak filtered air, because of the positive pressure inside the tube. Choose a USB powerbank that can power the fan for at least 8 hours. Recommend at least 10000 mAh (32 Wh) capacity. You can swap the power bank if it is depleted during use. To use, strap the full face mask to your face and turn CPU fan on. Check ventilation hole for airflow, there should be an outwards flow of air. As long as air is flowing outwards, it is impossible to breathe in unfiltered air. You can easily eat and drink while wearing this, by using standard utensils and straws and inserting food through the ventilation hole. It should be possible to wear this DIY PAPR continuously for an entire day with needing to take it off. Wearing a DIY PAPR makes it impossible to be infected by an airborne pathogen like SARS-CoV-2. It is designed to be the end-all solution to any respiratory pandemic, and will eradicate SARS-CoV-2 within 3 months with 95% usage, regardless of how many strains exist, drug resistance or mutations.

>>5720 Source: my grandma's neighbor Facebook page.

>>5720 Now try finding "HEPA" filter that actually filters pm 2.5 particles. Unlike branded masks which are required to be somewhat tested, and face reputation for failures, any factory can sell simple carburetor filters and call them HEPA without any of the customers noticing.

>>5723 You could use the filters meant for HVAC if you cant find a HEPA that has been tested.

>>5722 >>5723 Check the filtration efficiency table from >>4296, otherwise use the following papers. https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252#tbl1 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32584542/ https://cace.tamu.edu/research/covid-19-mask-materials/index.html https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/54/7/789/202744 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0240499

Носите маски, малолетние уёбки - учитесь быть быдлом!

>>5765 >Носите маски, малолетние уёбки - учитесь быть быдлом!

>>5785 Нет, мальчик, я не конспиролог. Просто я умнее всей вашей борды вместе взятой! Более того, я умнее всех учёных и медицинских чиновников, которых ты слушаешь с телевизора! И я говорю вам - вы кретины, если носите марлевые маски в надежде защититься от вирусов!

>>5871 >Просто я умнее всей вашей борды вместе взятой!

>>4238 Saw this paper and thought about this thread.

>>6145 Maybe true. But you should still use a mask unless you want to look like an idiot.

>>6187 i just appreciate the improved anonymity and warmth during winter. don't really care if it does anything. it's more of a social reminder of the situation instead of an actual useful tool.

>>6145 That paper failed at getting published. That says something.

>>6189 What? What does it say? That somebody high up didn't like the paper? What was specifically wrong with the methodology set out within the paper?

>>6208 aren't there multiple studies that show extensive effectiveness of masks, esp when both parties are wearing them?

>>6208 Considering how many dogshit papers get published, it must be really really bad if this one couldn't.

>>6209 If I saw them I'm not sure I'd believe them. I've been witnessing people being very obedient and wearing the masks for months, while the flu counter rolls on upward regardless. Even if the filter material is shown to be effective I don't think elastic attachments do a very good job. >>6210 Shoddy papers are a CIA-porky pig conspiracy to make you doubt the self-evident part of your reality. They are published easily and effortlessly. When another allegedly shoddy paper is all of a sudden blocked and for reasons that are not immediately obvious then I'm left to question the motives of those journals that rejected it.

>>6218 >Shoddy papers are a CIA-porky pig conspiracy to make you doubt the self-evident part of your reality. The self-evident part of my reality is that masks obviously trap a significant amount of my breath and that respiratory virii like coronavirus are obviously spread via breath. >When another allegedly shoddy paper is all of a sudden blocked and for reasons that are not immediately obvious then I'm left to question the motives of those journals that rejected it. >all of a sudden blocked >for reasons that are not immediately obvious what makes this "sudden"? I have not read the contents of the paper, and I'm not really qualified to judge it. Do I trust my gut (which says that masks probably work) or do I trust some random paper that I haven't read and got rejected from publication?

>>6219 Keep trusting your gut and not the studies trying to clown you, anon. They're utter foolery by the technocratic class and they get a real clit jiggling going while misleading you. As for the masks... They aren't working. What the public is wearing to combat this is not working. It might work if supermarkets handed out N95s but it is not working otherwise. I kind of think this is intentional. In WWII *real* gas masks were handed out to everyone. But in current year no one can find any or afford any and the elderly who use up a lot of resources are conveniently dying off. Add to that as well that through compliance, I have lost all liberties and self-respect that I might have had earlier. So I am alive but for simply no reason at all. This is where the bulk of my resistance to masks comes from. What my gut tells me is that compliance is worse than Chinese flu, and that I'm looking for some excuse of a way out so that I can excuse being cowardly and compliant in the face of reprisals. I am not satisfied with this compromise at all, not even slightly.

>>6222 >Keep trusting your gut and not the studies trying to clown you, anon. My gut says pizza and coke are the diet of my dreams. The studies claim such diet has bad consequences. Should I say "fuarrrk you" to the studies and claim there is no link between such diet and getting fat as fuarrrk? >As for the masks... They aren't working. What the public is wearing to combat this is not working. Ah, that explains why infections rate decrease every time wearing masks is ordered by gov in my country. Bad filtering is multitude times better than no filtering. Of course N95 grade do even better job at stopping particles. Which you can wear freely. It is not illegal to buy them. I bought many of them myself.

>>5300 >Surplus is also questionable quality, as the storage and age of masks and cartridges is questionable. This. Still better than nothing tho. I would like to notice that condensed nerve gas used as a warfare agent affects you instantly in comparison to virus that has to fight your immune system first and it's concentration in the air is smaller than what gas masks were designed to deal with. If you want to have a better picture - I would not recommend to walk into a cloud of mustard gas in N95 mask. Military gas mask to protect surgeons when performing tracheotomies on patients with COVID-19 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7409952/

>My gut says pizza and coke are the diet of my dreams. The studies claim such diet has bad consequences. Should I say "fuarrrk you" to the studies and claim there is no link between such diet and getting fat as fuarrrk? You are a first-hand witness in seeing people get fat while eating pizza. Here's a trivial example for you. Studies say cats get ill whenever they are fed milk. I have never seen it personally. I'm not even convinced that you could harm a cat by giving it nothing BUT milk. Either the story is embellished beyond recognition or it's utter foolery. If not to mess with everyone's reality, why fund studies that are so trivial? And why are the findings always that down is up, or that up is sideways, and why is the name on the paper always either foreign or corporate? >Ah, that explains why infection rates decrease every time wearing masks is ordered by gov in my country. Bad filtering is multitude times better than no filtering. People have been wearing these masks for months and I've been watching the infection rate ticker roll right around despite it. Why should I forfeit my liberties for something so ineffectual? >Of course N95 grade do even better job at stopping particles. Which you can wear freely. It is not illegal to buy them. I bought many of them myself. I've seen no real breathing apparatus like this within the two years this has been going on. If N95s work then why aren't people being told that they work? As well, how much do these masks currently cost? >Military gas mask to protect surgeons when performing tracheotomies on patients with COVID-19 Just let me die and let cowardly surgeons "work on" the next patient.

>>6230 >You are a first-hand witness in seeing people get fat while eating pizza. How do I know it's pizza the factor? Maybe govt is adding sugar to tap water and masking the sweet taste with some taste numbing agents? >Here's a trivial example for you. Studies say cats get ill whenever they are fed milk. I have never seen it personally. I'm not even convinced that you could harm a cat by giving it nothing BUT milk. Is asbestos really dangerous for lungs? I don't know anyone who died of lung cancer because of asbestos. Same type of logic. >People have been wearing these masks for months and I've been watching the infection rate ticker roll right around despite it. Why should I forfeit my liberties for something so ineffectual? To reduce risk of you and your family suffocating themselves while their lungs slowly shut down? I would remain silent about part when you reduce spread of illness on unrelated to you people as I fee like you give even less then zero fuarrrks about. If reduction is only 1 percent it still means 1 out of 100 surviving. It's 10000 out of 1000000. So far statistics research point to much higher effectiveness. But yea, if you are nihilistic misanthrope that fact means nothing to you. So indeed, you have no reason to not breath freely unfiltered air condensed with virus exhaled by others who also do not use any filtration at all and exhale such air out of your lungs sharing it with everyone you pass by after you get infected. > If N95s work then why aren't people being told that they work? I have no idea which people are not. All people I know are literate and can read govt materials that mentions filters grades. Also I have seen in the media reports of grading different mask types from self made cotton masks up to specialized gas masks. At this point only people people who have no clue about that stuff are these who shut themselves completely from media and govt materials or who are mentally incapable of processing that information - like kids under the age of 5, comatose patients, people suffering Alzheimer's disease and so on/ But maybe you live in an undeveloped society unaware of fact that there are different grades of filters in existence. > As well, how much do these masks currently cost? Consult your local market. I don't even have idea which country are you from. Parts of your writing suggest it's some isolated enclave with no proper basic education and government imposed ban on access to even very basic safety training that most developed countries have even as a part of primary school programs, media, internet and literature as well as access to work safety materials commonly available in specialized shops. >Just let me die and let cowardly surgeons "work on" the next patient. Just do not let anyone call the ambulance after you start suffocating of you wish end your earthly path that way.

>>6222 >Keep trusting your gut and not the studies trying to clown you, anon. They're utter foolery by the technocratic class and they get a real clit jiggling going while misleading you. cool, so I'll keep believing masks work and you're a moron for thinking otherwise.

>>6232 Masks weren't effective for Sars back in 2003, but now a smaller virus than Sars can be stopped by masks that were in existance in 2003 will help... fuarrrk off, china wage slave.

>>6232 >cool, so I'll keep believing masks work and you're a moron for thinking otherwise. Sure. It's within your rights. Rights which you will soon not have for wearing those masks. >>6230 >How do I know it's pizza the factor? Maybe govt is adding sugar to tap water and masking the sweet taste with some taste numbing agents? Trust your own senses anon. >Is asbestos really dangerous for lungs? I don't know anyone who died of lung cancer because of asbestos. Same type of logic. At least there you have a better example. Things found entirely outside of nature (anti-freeze) have the ability to trick the senses (it tastes sweet) because you're never supposed to come across them ever. Similarly a radioactive puddle can look like very clear and untainted water. I'd still maintain that one tenth of your blurry, sleep deprived partially-sighted eye is worth more to me than a study involving robotic assistance with obscene levels of accuracy. Your senses are the basis for your reality and you're to have some confidence in them. Robotic testimonies can be manipulated to tell lies all the same. >To reduce risk of you and your family suffocating themselves while their lungs slowly shut down? I would remain silent about that part when you reduce spread of illness on unrelated to you people as I feel like you give even less then zero fuarrrks about. If reduction is only 1 percent it still means 1 out of 100 surviving. It's 10000 out of 1000000. So far statistics research point to much higher effectiveness. There are risks every day. The sale of individual liberties to prevent all of them would be poison regardless. Are you here to argue that the price of wearing a mask is so low? Because from what I've seen society is dead and gone and the price of masks has been our principles as men. That and the elderly are dying despite widespread compliance by others. >But yea, if you are nihilistic misanthrope that fact means nothing to you. So indeed, you have no reason to not breath freely unfiltered air condensed with virus exhaled by others who also do not use any filtration at all and exhale such air out of your lungs sharing it with everyone you pass by after you get infected. It seems I care about principles by which to live (which I fall terribly short of) and that's about it. But your ancestors could have told you - to be alive but without a spine is to not be alive. > If N95s work then why aren't people being told that they work? >I have no idea which people are not. All people I know are literate and can read govt materials that mentions filter grades. Also I have seen in the media reports of grading different mask types from self made cotton masks up to specialized gas masks. At this point only people people who have no clue about that stuff are these who shut themselves completely from media and govt materials or who are mentally incapable of processing that information - like kids under the age of 5, comatose patients, people suffering Alzheimer's disease and so on/ But maybe you live in an undeveloped society unaware of fact that there are different grades of filters in existence. No, it's an overdeveloped society that lies. It's the law to wear one, the people are compliant and largely follow the order, questions about the effectiveness of the muzzles for any reason is heresy, elderly continue to die and the way out of it is considered to be take your vaccine like a good little boy. >As well, how much do these masks currently cost? >Consult your local market. I don't even have idea which country are you from. Parts of your writing suggest it's some isolated enclave with no proper basic education and government imposed ban on access to even very basic safety training that most developed countries have even as a part of primary school programs, media, internet and literature as well as access to work safety materials commonly available in specialized shops. Where I'm from health & safety and climate change and other things are simultaneously used for disinfo & worshipped like bronze bulls. >Just let me die and let cowardly surgeons "work on" the next patient. >Just do not let anyone call the ambulance after you start suffocating of you wish end your earthly path that way. I think it's against the law for me to talk about anything with other people.

As the pandemic was starting, people were told that they would need at least an N95. But then the story changed and any old mask was good enough (or no mask at all, if you shouted "black lives matter" during gatherings), and no more mention of N95s was ever made again.

>>6224 >Ah, that explains why infections rate decrease every time wearing masks is ordered by gov in my country >data can't be manipulated Look at Japan's data. They have all but admitted they're suppressing numbers so they can host the olympics. >bad filtering is better than no filtering That logic is sound when the virus isn't airborne. Covid most likely is airborne, at the very least spread via aerosols, proven to linger in the air for 30+ minutes. >stopping particles N95 grade masks work not because they filter particles better, but because they form a perfect seal. The filtration is just a bonus. Surgical masks are also decent for this purpose which is why we're not seeing apocalyptic soykaf going down in Asia. >>6230 >If N95s work then why aren't people being told that they work? As well, how much do these masks currently cost? There are barely any available, and they're not that expensive. Counterfeits are plenty available. 3M and other manufacturers clearly have scaled down production - likely for nefarious reasons. Their production and sale are being suppressed. The response in the west is beyond FUBAR. I will now propose a scenario: Yellowstone caldera will erupt in a month, the little geologists at the volcano observatory told USGS their sensors are going apeshit, USGS told the spooks. What do the spooks do? Do they mount a massive evacuation at their own expense, completely cripple logistics for a third of the country, put 2/3rds of the army in a disaster zone, blow a few billion activating FEMA, and maybe save a few million lives, but potentially end many more due to the inevitable civil unrest? Or do they just issue gag orders to the geologists, throw middle america under the bus, and suppress the information regarding an imminent eruption to prevent panic and save their bottom-line? Corona is similar to this. Something is clearly going on. If this was some big ELE level virus they'd straight up go full martial law like China did. If this was a boring flu like certain people said they wouldn't even bother will all this, and would play it off as "dirty foreign virus dun spook'd us." If this was what the experts are saying it is, relatively safe for young people potentially deadly for old/sick then they'd do what Sweden and Japan are doing and tell the old and sick to stay home so society doesn't fall apart. My conclusion is as such: Covid is either much, much worse than they're saying and likely is going to cause an absolute soykafstorm when the "long-term effects" kick in, or they've just blew this out of proportion for political behavioral conditioning reasons(enforce compliance) - either way this situation is legitimately fuarrrked, and all these travel bans have me nearly panicked. I've always said that I was against border walls because I don't want to be walled IN, and have always had the idea that all these border-strengthening measures were going to be used against citizens one day under the guise of some nebulous security risk. This is the realization of those fears, and it's messed up that they're doing everything they can to keep us trapped in dying countries. At the end of the day this ends with them letting the dregs of society run wild on everyone else, simply so they can crack down harder. They want to prevent the intellectuals, dissidents, etc from leaving so that they can persecute us.

>>6233 >>6234 >>6235 USA level of intelligence/10 when you read posts like these you start understanding why COVID hit that country so much harder than central Europe that is decades behind in development. >Masks weren't effective for Sars back in 2003, but now a smaller virus than Sars can be stopped by masks that were in existance in 2003 will help... LOLWUT? Literally 2017 research with conclusion that masks do work in case of SARS in 2003 and best protection was from N95 grade. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29140516/ You can also familiarize yourself with other researches https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=N95 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=face+masks But I gues at least one of you will come back screaming something akin to MASONIC CONSPIRACY OF CIA!

>>6238 Don't just blame people like him, and dumb anti-maskers for how bad the US got it. It's 100% the culture here, which creates these kinds of mindsets combined with the blatant hypocrisy on display (stay home unless you're going to a BLM march or a billionaire that wants to fuarrrk around in the Bahamas) - that hypocrisy was intentional too. America has a degenerate consumerist culture that creates scenes like an anti-mask protestor wearing an all lives matter mask. What a meaningless slogan, none of our lives matter to the fuarrrkos running this country.

>USA level of intelligence/10 Still not even from the USA >when you read posts like these you start understanding why COVID hit that country so much harder than central Europe that is decades behind in development. Still not even caught the virus yet >LOLWUT? Literally 2017 research with conclusion that masks do work in case of SARS in 2003 and best protection was from N95 grade. Thanks for the articles anon. I've grabbed half a dozen which on the surface seem legitimate. I'll look through them later at some point. >But I guess at least one of you will come back screaming something akin to MASONIC CONSPIRACY OF CIA! The flimsy masks that people are wearing and being sold do not work here. Nobody *even people whose sole job is to inform the public* has bothered correcting them. This is despite a lockdown which is crippling economically. For what other motive would you create these conditions if not for nefarious reasons? Especially seeing as these politicians are known to love money and hate to lose any? Do you have an answer or do your rights simply not matter to you at all?

>>6241 A lot of what you're saying sounds like American propaganda, but I get what you mean since I feel a similar way as you in regards to masks. The system is lying about something. We may disagree on what they are lying about, but the fact remains they are lying. >For what other motive would you create these conditions if not for nefarious reasons? To keep the people calm, so they don't either mass-exodus or start flipping out. Tell approx. 20,000,000 people their lungs, immune system, and sperm count are shot potentially for life and see how they take it. That's why they're lying. Gov't also has motivations to keep people sick as it makes big pharma a killing. (or I guess if you're right to keep people from flipping out over being lied to about a nothingburger flu, but imo they wouldn't waste all these resources doing that and would just blame foreigners)

>>6241 Follow up to that post... >With targeted campaigns and the help of the fashion industry, masks may become a popular accessory amongst school children. As children are effective source-transmitters of infection, encouraging a trend toward such increased mask-wearing could result in a significant, self-perpetuating reduction mechanism for limiting influenza transmission in schools during a pandemic. this is more fuarrrking digusting than the influenza I'm surprised they even added the qualifier 'during a pandemic' who on earth would come up with such a 'virulent' strategy? Why, Sara Y Del Valle et al would whilst working for the Association for Professionals in Infection Control and Epidemiology Inc. Once again baser instincts of foreign names ~ discard the claims works to insulate me from the technocratic dystopia

Eh, honestly it's not that I disagree with anti-maskers, it all depends on how to look at it. Even a piece of cloth holds water droplets and prevents you from touching your face, for me it's logically out of the question. Protesting against forced laws however... Covid has so much bullshit behind it's insane, billionaires and governments doing whatever they want because at any point in time they can say it's all for the sake of stopping the virus, and guess whom exactly whole covid situation made even richer? Want to believe anti-maskers are morons? You are right, go ahead and tell those schizos to take their goddamn meds. Someone else wants to believe they are fighters for freedom? Not like they're wrong, they can go ahead and tell the mask cattle for what they're worth. It does seem however that you two will look at the same thing but will see and talk about two absolutely different things refusing actual debate to reach the middle ground, but it's just how the world works today, right? Pick your narrative, your right side of history.

>>6244 I don't think anti-maskers are morons, I think the assholes promoting Q used cult tactics to spread that belief and a pandemic is legitimately a great time for cults to proliferate and the assholes running big tech companies used social shaming tactics to get the masses on board with masks. Then you've got a recipe for a perfect mindfuck, and the opportunistic media ran with it because divisive bullshit boosts their ratings. So you've got two groups all but forced to adopt absolutist positions. It shuts down reasonable voices. I can't say "cloth masks don't work" without people thinking I'm an "anti-masker" conversely I can't say "wear a decent mask when you go out to crowded areas like airports since we don't really know what covid does" without being called a masknigger sheep.

>>6234 >Rights which you will soon not have for wearing those masks. SlIPpEry SlOPe!!

>>6239 >America has a degenerate consumerist culture that creates scenes like an anti-mask protestor wearing an all lives matter mask. What a meaningless slogan, none of our lives matter to the fuarrrkos running this country. Yup. America is a country of thieves and religious nutjobs. Everything's about proving a point and aligning yourself with a group, but the groups were all created for and by advertising. It's even evident in the way people talk. You can tell how much news someone watches by how often they repeat news memes. Anyway, masks pretty clearly do *something*, and the coronavirus is pretty clearly serious. Better safe than sorry, IMO.

>>6246 :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

>>6248 >nazis exterminating political enemies is the same as public health officials begging people to wear masks

>>6249 It's hilarious because I know dozens of people who were arrested in the past just for wearing masks, like at demonstrations. People hiding their identity to commit crimes is also brought up when they want to ban muslim attire for women. Now the same authorities are requiring them? so it's kind of a net zero if you look at it the right way.

>>6249 so now you aren't that eager to make fun of slippery slope unless you have literal nazis staying behind your door? Reminds me of something I read recently :)

>>6254 what in the bloody hell are you talking about mate?

>Want to believe anti-maskers are morons? You are right, go ahead and tell those schizos to take their goddamn meds. Someone else wants to believe they are fighters for freedom? Not like they're wrong, they can go ahead and tell the mask cattle for what they're worth. It does seem however that you two will look at the same thing but will see and talk about two absolutely different things refusing actual debate to reach the middle ground, but it's just how the world works today, right? Pick your narrative, your right side of history. Somewhere in the loop of "what use is there in being foolishly brave if you are dead?" ~ "what use is there in being alive if you are foolishly cowardly?" there's a middle ground that we could meet upon and discuss things reasonably. But while you'll find plenty of anti-maskers willing to engage you on the efficacy of masks, some more clumsily than others, you will not find one mask plantationist willing to engage you on the efficacy of freedoms. Not one. In that way the absolutist argument is not ours. It's remarkable as well the ease with which these people argue that a natural born state as to not wearing any headgear is somehow worth concern or ostracism or jail sentences. The exceptional claim is theirs and they're not content to settle an argument by reason, so it comes down to force. You would get a far better result if this were not the case.

>>6257 >you will not find one mask plantationist willing to engage you on the efficacy of freedoms. Not one. What an absolute statement you're making there. "the efficacy of freedoms" is a weird turn of phrase, since freedoms are nonmaterial and are an end to themselves. You have immediately placed yourself in an entrenched combative position. That is not how you foster healthy debate, it's how you start a flamewar.

>>6257 I, for one, think that people should be allowed to not wear masks, but I also will avoid the fuarrrk out of them.

>>6257 > It's remarkable as well the ease with which these people argue that a natural born state as to not wearing any headgear is somehow worth concern or ostracism or jail sentences. You are spreading disease much faster if you are infected by not wearing that headgear. It's not a rocket science. If you have HIV in your body and not inform your partner before having sex with them infected you go to prison. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_transmission_of_HIV Not wearing mask is like sticking your HIV infected penis in every person you pass by. You are also derezzed from storing highly radioactive materials, nerve gases and heaps of rusty world war two bomber ammunition in you yard for the fact that it is freaking dangerous for others living nearby. Not wearing "that headgear" is like running around and spraying people with infection vector. What is so hard to understand here? If they should have right to not wear mask one can state that he should have right to scorch them with a flamethrower as they are initiating aggression/violating non aggression principle/dangerous if they pass by him within a distance of his weapon wile not wearing what you call "a headgear". >The exceptional claim There is nothing exceptional. >The exceptional claim is theirs and they're not content to settle an argument by reason, so it comes down to force. You would get a far better result if this were not the case. Reasoning with them? Pretty much the same crowd believes Bill Gates is chippin' them in with vaccines. Numerous people tried reasoning with them for years. They failed.

>What an absolute statement you're making there. All my absolute truths would be rendered circumstantial and relative immediately, if even one opponent of mine could be bothered. >"the efficacy of freedoms" is a weird turn of phrase, since freedoms are nonmaterial and are an end to themselves. This is the first time anybody has questioned the bulk of my counter-argument to mask wearing. This should have happened ages ago. But emboldened opponents are lazy opponents. Plenty of opportunities to question the extent and utility of those freedoms and the extent that they can be rendered tangibly. You are the first one to even raise this in this debate. >You have immediately placed yourself in an entrenched combative position. That is not how you foster healthy debate, it's how you start a flamewar. It's true. I invite out more of their anger. When you tell the truth before an angry opponent, without euphemisms like "regrettable" and "unfortunate" you serve to provoke them. But if you offer up the truth with those euphemisms, you embellish it and coddle it and deviate from what it is. I care what is true before how you feel. I root myself in the former and leave the latter to somebody else. You need resistant people or the truth gets lost. >I, for one, think that people should be allowed to not wear masks, but I also will avoid the fuarrrk out of them. You know what the anti-maskers would say don't you? "That is your right."

>>6263 >If you have HIV in your body and not inform your partner before having sex with them infected you go to prison Not in California heh. Also this logic is generally silly, and perfectly illustrates a point I made earlier in this thread about everyone forcing themselves into absolutist mind-traps. Even in the worst case, where covid is much worse than the government is letting on it's nowhere near as dangerous as HIV, nerve gas, or highly radioactive material. Those things are guaranteed death or at the very least loss of quality-of-life, whereas even by the worst estimate covid will only kill or maim a fraction of the population. It is worth taking precautions to save them, but it is not worth supporting government restrictions of movement. >is like running around and spraying people with infection vector So is running around at all even with a "mask." Covid is airborne, the more I look into this the more convinced I am of this. It can be spread between rooms in the same hotel with zero outside contact or contact between "guests". It was spreading on the Diamond Princess despite the fact people were locked inside their rooms. The clear best way is to not go out at all, opt to work remotely, and wear a proper respirator when going to any crowded places like supermarkets, or airports. Most people wear cloth masks, these do nothing for an airborne virus. If you need to go out, wear a proper respirator. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-16/hotel-quarantine-gap-prevent-airborne-spread-of-covid-19/13057644 >Pretty much the same crowd believes Bill Gates is chippin' them in with vaccines This is the sort of well-poisoning rhetoric I'm talking about. You've adopted an absolutist position on masks and the virus in general and it's messing up your ability to look at this objectively. Neither side is 100% correct, and one side is clearly more in the wrong(imo brainjacked by wumao into spreading the virus) - reevaluate the way you're approaching the virus.

>>6263 Surely you do not mean that the natural born state of a man is the same as having HIV... Note also, that there is to be no mark on your passport saying that you have or have not received treatment for AIDS. Maybe the assumption is like yours, that everyone's so full of it that an AIDS scheme would be pointless. Or maybe their motives lie elsewhere. >Numerous people tried reasoning with them for years. I'll have you know that "suit up and boot up" isn't an argument.

>>6266 >Note also, that there is to be no mark on your passport saying that you have or have not received treatment for AIDS I'm in support of the vaccine passports - mostly because they show that governments are moving towards free travel again. Practically this just means presenting proof of vaccination upon applying for a visa / clearing customs. It's not at all abnormal, we have "vaccine passports" for malaria, dengue, and yellow fever too. In fact if governments adopt this system it means they are more open to returning to normal, which is why it's odd that there's this anti-vaccine passport rhetoric floating around because "it'll decrease equity" - now that's concerning. The fact that they didn't allow travel with a negative test a year ago is concerning.

>>6265 >Most people wear cloth masks, these do nothing for an airborne virus. Most people I see wear surgical masks at this point in my country which is layered form of clothing mask. Well in bot cases It is not supposed to do anything to airborne virus and no one is advertising it that way. It is supposed to decrease amount of moist you exhale by trapping it on material (that's why these masks go wet) decreasing amount of virus that goes airborne as virus spreads inside droplets of water you exhale. It has been explained over 9000 times all over the media and internet. Filter what YOU _EXHALE_ rather what you inhale. >If you need to go out, wear a proper respirator Respirator's job is to not let airborne virus into your lungs. Totally different job. >This is the sort of well-poisoning rhetoric I'm talking about. You've adopted an absolutist position on masks and the virus in general and it's messing up your ability to look at this objectively. Not wearing mask > higher rate of spread It's as absolutist as Newton's laws of kinematics. If someone feel that statistics and physics oppress them - well I find it entertaining.

>>6267 >The fact that they didn't allow travel with a negative test a year ago is concerning. Limiting travel is logical way of decreasing the spread - tests back than were mostly experimental stage. Even today you can be infected and have negative test result just to get symptoms few days later even if you spent these days in isolation. So imagine you pass the border and few days later you start infecting others when virus multiplies to a proper amount in your body.

>>6268 >Most people I see wear surgical masks at this point in my country Sure, and I've said before that surgical masks are better than cloth. They do reduce transmission risk by about 30% - that's substantial and worth partaking in. >Filter what YOU _EXHALE_ rather what you inhale. Right, but that shouldn't be the ideal - that's what I'm saying. Two-way filtration should be the baseline, not the exception. >Respirator's job is to not let airborne virus into your lungs. Totally different job This is clearly the job we should be focusing on, on a societal level no? 70% reduction in transmission vs 30% >Not wearing mask > higher rate of spread I basically agree with everything you're saying in this post. The entire point I am trying to make is that our response as a society has been a complete failure - pro-mask people think they're making a difference wearing ineffective cloth masks and anti-mask people don't believe the virus is real at all. I am saying we need to do better, and the fact that we aren't shows that the US is a rapidly declining nation. We need better masks, better information, less political well-poisoning, and a clear roadmap to reopening. Literally every non-western country is doing this. >>6269 >Limiting travel is logical way of decreasing the spread Quarantine + pre-flight testing solves this. Look at Hawaii and Vermont. Lowest covid counts in the US and they remained open to tourists the entire time. Properly managed quarantine works about as well as travel bans. Countries that are still imposing travel bans in lieu of setting up a proper entry and exit system have ulterior motives. Plus, once the virus has established community spread travel bans are pointless - that is even what the authorities were saying just six months ago and it makes perfect logical sense.

>>6270 >This is clearly the job we should be focusing on, on a societal level no? 70% reduction in transmission vs 30% Do you propose we just pull these billions of respirators out our ass? We apparently don't even have manufacturing capacity to make enough syringes to distribute the vaccine, we definitely can't make proper respirators for everybody. 30% (I'm taking your word on the numbers) is a heck of a lot better than 0%, and where people actually wear them it's been quite effective. Maybe you think we should drop everything and dedicate all our manufacturing resources toward making better masks, but making good masks is actually hard and despite all the PR stunts from Ford & co you can't just switch to making totally different products overnight. The strategy right now is not to stop the pandemic but to manage it until the vaccine becomes widespread.

>>6271 Is it still even worth it to worry about things like "scarcity" when it comes to covid? First it was toilet paper, then masks (which they confidently said do nothing and then made a huge flip flop overnight with zero new studies), then it was respirators, then we learned the respirators were actually killing a lot of people. Now it's syringes (for the vaccine that apparently doesn't stop you from getting it anyway, put your mask back on), now it's wear two masks, I've seen legitimate news articles advocating for anal swab tests for covid. Is it ever enough for a virus with such a low death rate that has essentially rendered flu deaths non-existent in its presence? I'm not suggesting that the virus isn't real or anything like that, I'm suggesting that we need to get real after a certain point though. Lainchan is one of the few places I expect to have a critical healthy eye towards situation and yet is seems like a lot of lains buy this soykaf wholesale. The entire thing reeks of bullshit, and I say this as someone who was taking it seriously a couple of months before the average person was even conscious of it. Remember when everything was about just not overwhelming hospitals all at once for two weeks? There's no way I'm the only one here who feels this way.

>>6271 >We apparently don't even have manufacturing capacity to make enough syringes to distribute the vaccine Which is just another glaring aspect of how hard we've failed as a society. >30% is a heck of a lot better than 0% Agreed, although in the US it is 0% for your average cloth-mask wearer. This is a failure. Countries like Australia, Japan, and Korea where surgical masks are widely used are faring far better >Maybe you think we should drop everything and dedicate all our manufacturing resources toward making better masks Again, other countries are not facing a shortage of surgical, or N95 grade masks. Even countries that are quite hard hit or have population density issues Their production and sale is clearly being manipulated. It is not a simple failure of manufacturing when countries like Korea and Mexico are able to keep up supply. Maybe this could be a regulatory issue with selling masks in the US. I'm not sure how deep this goes. >but making good masks is actually hard N95s sure, but not surgical ones, and finding authentic surgical masks is damn near impossible as well here. I'm unsure if it's like that everywhere in the US as my state has had partial supply chain breakdown, aside from the pandemic. I wonder how other states are faring re: mask supply, because if they are faring better it would make me more optimistic. >The strategy right now is not to stop the pandemic but to manage it until the vaccine becomes widespread. Which is a great strategy since covid will likely become, or already is endemic to some degree. I fully expect yearly vaccines like the flu. Apparently the 30% statistic has been debunked - it's now "moderately high" for just wearing a surgical mask. The original infograph has also been altered to show a person wearing a bandana with 30% (and the sources have been removed - will post it next) - that kind of soykaf is an example of the well-poisoning I mentioned earlier. Bandanas are 0% - infograph debunked even though it was based on an accurate study re: surgical masks. >>6272 >There's no way I'm the only one here who feels this way. You're not. They're constantly moving the goal posts and it's very suspicious. I am taking the virus seriously and something is deeply wrong with the way our government is acting.

The original infograph was a dark purple hue showing asian looking people wearing surgical masks with these figures and sources cited at the bottom. I cannot find it for the life of me.

>>6273 Kind of weird, but this gif reminds me the whole situation.

>>6275 never seen that one before, might have a hypno fetish now.

>>6273 >Which is just another glaring aspect of how hard we've failed as a society. Yeah, but we're not gonna fix it within a year or two. Or probably ever. >other countries are not facing a shortage of surgical, or N95 grade masks I can guarantee you a large percentage of those are counterfeit and probably worse than cloth. Wouldn't surgical masks be worse than cloth anyway? They're meant to stop you sneezing on somebody's entrails, not a fuarrrking pandemic. >>6272 There's definitely a lot of gaslighting and such going on, but I feel confident chalking that up to the usual government incompetence and ass-covering.

>they >their >they didn't told us Why are Americans sounding like all they need is a group of people spoon-feeding them with everything even easy to find info and telling them personally like their babysitters? Every time gov didn't stick to their foreheads paper flyers with instructions what to do and what you should not do they act like it's a conspiracy against their lives. Even former soviet bloc has more self-sufficient citizens in regard of that. No other country would grant you compensation for burning yourself with a hot coffee just because there was no warning written on a cup about the fact that hot liquid can burn. Probably some countries could even send you to psychiatric evaluation for trying to sue anyone for such reasons.

>>6238 I'm not American, and I didn't say anything stupid. I pointed out the oddity of first claiming N95 is required, but then suddenly switching to the claim that any kind of mask works and N95 is irrelevant. That doesn't make sense. Nor does it make sense for a doctor to first say that masks are unnecessary, but then later say that no doctor would ever advise people to not wear masks. Maskers are nothing but cultists.

>>6278 What, do you expect us to each do our own research studies in our backyard vivarium? How are we supposed to know what's going on without hearing from the people doing the actual work?

>>6279 >Maskers are nothing but cultists. And we rounded another futile circle in this discussion. That would be all about possibility of reasoning with you.

>>6279 >Nor does it make sense for a doctor to first say that masks are unnecessary, but then later say that no doctor would ever advise people to not wear masks. It makes perfect sense. He wanted a chance to stock up on N95s for himself before the run started, so he lied. There is no mystery here.

>>6277 >Yeah, but we're not gonna fix it within a year or two. Or probably ever. Okay, and we're not gonna fix police brutality or opiate addiction either - still worth bringing up things. The more people bring them up the greater the chance the idea proliferates and evolves into an entirely viable one. >counterfeit So are the ones here, we just have less of them than everyone else. Or maybe we're just buying more since it's hoarding soykaf is popular now. And no, surgical masks are better than cloth since they're a much tighter weave. Cloth masks basically shed contaminated fibers and fomites and don't filter air either way, surgical masks just prevent the sick from spreading. Cloth masks do almost nothing. >>6278 lmao just wait ten years. have you ever been to asia? they've got literally 20 signs and announcements reminding you not to fuarrrk around on every escalator on every floor. like signs showing you how to behave on escalators all the way down incase someone gets the radical idea to, idk, move around on an escalator? we're headed in that direction of full blown infantilization. and when i say they i mean the system at large, a plurality of institutions that dictate what the average american has floating around in his brain.

>>6280 >What, do you expect us to each do our own research studies in our backyard vivarium? Yes. Obviously. You do need to cultivate own specie of corona to understand difference between respirator and surgical masks. And get PhD in physics and medicine to not open cup of McDonalds hot coffee between your legs in a running car. I guess you also need to finish master of science in microbiology to understand the role of droplets in spreading airborne viruses (which I was taught about like in 3rd or 4th class of primary school in my European country BTW).

>>6283 Nah, never been to Asia. Interesting poster. In Czech typical way of using escalator is - left side is for people in hurry, right for "normal" regular people who just stand. In Poland it's just "Whatever side you want, if anyone is in hurry they say excuse me". So making this kind of depiction kinda makes sense in more international environment. But yea warnings like - "don't insert into penis" on a set of semi sharp screwdrivers, or "avoid poring on crotch area" are indeed interesting ones. What's next? Warnings on kitchen knives that you should not leave them in baby cribs?

The virus is running rampant throughout all the compliant oxygen deprived peons wearing their masks, meanwhile I still haven't caught it. You know you could have disarmed everything we've said if you hadn't lied to us repeatedly and then threatened us with fines or go to gulag. You could have had it so easy. But because the media agrees and the political opposition agrees, we're the last ones making the government increasingly irate at our hard headedness. Even if we're all suckers for punishment, even if we accomplish nothing of measure by it then it's still fallen to us as our duty to perform our role, so that when the government tries to be so heavy handed in their next decree you will remember there were many who exercised their disobedience and that their cost to society remains far less than the measures >>6285 Chengwuon? Is that you? Yeah it's gotten stuck in there again... w-well how else was I gonna undo the screws in my prostate?

>>6287 >oxygen deprived The masks people are buying aren't remotely thick enough to actually block oxygen from passing through.

>>6289 >seal isn't even good enough to 100% prevent infections >doctors wear them for 12+ hours >painters and demolition teams wear better masks for even longer periods I get being weary of the government, but this is just disinfo lol.

>>6290 >seal isn't even good enough to 100% prevent infections On which? Clothing? Yes. Surgical? Yes. But their role is not to prevent getting infected - it's to not infect others by limiting the size of cloud of droplets. It was already explained numerous times. Don't act like a jammed record. N95 are not 100% tight too but it's not their design to be so. If you want anywhere close to perfect seal without going full hazmat suit you go for something akin to 3M respirator. So once again - masks are for decreassing the spread. Everyone with 3 digit IQ should get that fact max at 3rd repetition of that sentence. Decrease is not equal to stop. Most primary school kids understand difference between these two words. Not full protection of means available is not an argument to not wear any protection at all. I don't understand why you act like it's a rocket science of some sort. You don't need PhD in applied math to understand that 2>1>0.

>>6291 Sorry lainon, I was agreeing with you and calling the guy saying masks deprive oxygen disinfo. I get the whole mask thing.

>>6289 >>6290 Hi. I worked construction for 6 months recently. We had to wear N95 masks while sanding or using the table saw so we don't get cancer from inhaling sawdust. We had to be really stingy with them. I would have to pull pretty hard from my mask to breathe after about day 3 with the same one lol

>>6294 oh, worth noting though that this was probably because of the sawdust. For normal users you can probably keep using the same N95 for a week or more without a problem. Also, my contribution to the thread: If you have the kind that loops around your ears instead of the back of your head, you can fix it by tying a rubber band around the back. It works great, gives a better seal, and doesn't hurt your ears so much.

>>6292 > I was agreeing with you and calling the guy saying masks deprive oxygen disinfo. Ah yea. "Oxygen deprivation" or in another version "carbon dioxode poisioning"[sic!]. Many people not only lack basic education but also basic thinking skills. But maybe they are these who really have carbonated soda in their veins instead of blood.

The SARS-CoV-2 pandemic is trivially solved with proper use of PPE. 7.8 billion N95s, one for each person and worn for 3 months will completely eradicate SARS-CoV-2 from Earth. Total cost 7.8 billion USD at 1 USD per N95. You can easily make N95-equivalent filters from DIY materials, 8 layers of paper towel provides 95% filtration at 0.3 microns. Governments and megacorps cannot be trusted to provide PPE, they will manipulate production of N95s to create an artificial crisis. They will push for ineffective 18 month partial lockdowns and reopen while there are active cases, instead of a proper 3 month hard quarantines. They continuously sabotage quarantine efforts by allowing international air travel from infected countries. They blatantly and repeatedly lie about everything. SARS-CoV-2 cannot and will not be solved by any other means than mass use of respiratory protection PPE. The only alternate measure that could work is a 3 month hard quarantine, but that is impossible if there is even a single fool breaking quarantine. Vaccines DO NOT WORK against rapidly mutating RNA coronaviruses, and will not eradicate SARS-CoV-2 anymore than influenza has been eradicated by vaccine.

>>6338 eradication isn't even the goal, immunization is. also good luck getting am*ricans on board with this. they've politicized everything so much that we're gonna be dealing with this for years.

>>6338 >eradication of a wild virus that evolves rapidly lmao good luck with that. Only reason we got smallpox outta there is because it is stable enough that vaccination works for most of your life... and you *still* have to get a smallpox shot before going to certain countries like India.

>>6349 Hope i dont go too offtopic here, a few years back a lot about mutating super viruses was in the news. Both natural and lab grown microbes were mentioned coupled with the fact that every asshole uses drops pills for every little illness that this would eventually develop immunity towards antibiotics. Funny since this covid bs i havent heard a single reference back to those stories, not one critique to any of that crap and people still take all those fuarrrked up pharma mafia poison pills then wonder how come soykaf like this happens. Its not like with the unhealthy way the average modern person lives we can expect anything other than rampant out of control diseases. Most people even still dont have a clue that simple common plants such as oregano and spearmint have antiviral properties, it obviously wouldnt stop it but it would significantly dampen it thats for sure.

>>6342 It is impossible to immunize against biological weapons. Weaponized strains are specifically engineered to defeat vaccines, even an F-grade microbiologist could produce a vaccine-resistant strain by accident. The only form of protection that works against biological weapons is full CBRN Hazmat suits, because they work against all viruses or pathogens, regardless of any mutations.

>>6352 antibiotics don't do anything about virii, and antiviral medications aren't prescribed very often. Vaccines don't work like antibiotics or antivirals. Main issue with virii is that now something that *would* have been a regional outbreak that spread slowly in the past, can now go worldwide in a couple days. Overuse of antibiotics is a seperate issue... but certainly one worth addressing. >>6353 >Weaponized strains are specifically engineered to defeat vaccines Lmao what kind of crap bioweapon would that be? No off switch? Any moron would know they were shooting themselves in the foot with that.

>>6354 Whoever is responsible doesn't care about the human race. This is the kind of nonsense that James Bond villains would engineer to destroy humanity, while hiding in bunkers.

>>6353 i think it's a bioweapon too and they're just getting around to telling us with this new 70% more deadly UK strain soykaf. however i also think they're willing to let people die so everyone can go back to making and spending money, and i don't care. i just want this travel ban soykaf to be over.

>>6357 >it was the discord CEO all along

>>6359 The Kent strain isn't the one they're selling as more deadly, its more contagious and only slightly more deadly. Its the south african and Brazil strains they're kicking up fear about.

>>6359 HE-Fragmentation artillery shells are 10x more effective on unaware targets than those laying prone. Biological weapons are also much more effective on targets having no protective measures, than those with CBRN respiratory protection.

>>6292 >The virus is running rampant throughout all the compliant oxygen deprived peons wearing their masks If it deprives you of so much oxygen then why has no one ever said anything about it to the health professionals that wear it for way more than 5 to 10 minutes at the store as the standard has been for decades? Even then does your brain not "regenerate" the oxygen it needs after you take it off or did you not think ahead that far and just want to refuse to wear a piece of cloth over your face for a couple minutes? There are other things to fight the government on and refusing to put a cloth over your face isn't being a freedom fighter. Why does no one understand the concept of pick your battles?

>>6370 The only thing people understand right now is that their bullshit detectors are going wild and that they are in midst of a threat they have no ability to quantify or reason about. Because they have no idea what's going on and feel as though something is fishy they make things up to pretend they're more in the know or in control than they really are. You see this on both sides of the "mask issue", "vaccine debate" and really any other place where reasonable discussion or understanding could be reached. If you do try to reason about the actual risks you can look forward to being shouted down by your peers because the soykaf they made up doesn't agree with reality and the bullshit is so thick they can't tell the difference anymore.

>>6370 >Why does no one understand the concept of pick your battles? Because if they can get people "fighting" the government in only the most asinine and stupid ways, they can keep people from actually fighting the government.

>>6371 I wasn't expecting a reasonable answer and I can wholeheartedly agree with this. Anyone I talk to about anything political I am met with people degrading me to what they expect someone who disagrees with them to be like. Unless I agree with them 100% I am a "hee hee hurr hurr CNN watching libtard" or "hee hee hurr hurr you're a Fox News watching Trumptard" despite being either of those things.

>If it deprives you of so much oxygen then why has no one ever said anything about it to the health professionals that wear it for way more than 5 to 10 minutes at the store as the standard has been for decades? Even then does your brain not "regenerate" the oxygen it needs after you take it off or did you not think ahead that far and just want to refuse to wear a piece of cloth over your face for a couple minutes? There is nothing better than an unpleasant remedy that nevertheless fails abysmally. Real masks probably work. They would probably bring the case figures down. The BS masks being sold to people are worse than nothing. They're a false confidence and a theft of our rights. An utter burglary. I come from a soykafhole that's imported masses of Arabs without the consent of the public and now I'm having to deal with the precedent of national government mandating use of the veil. You can't shop without one. "No mask no service" is the motto. If you go to court and in the dock then the jury will all be wearing them. And you'll be dealt with clinically in any case because the backlogs are enormous. If you don't mind me I'll continue to live "frivolously" as is my right. >There are other things to fight the government on and refusing to put a cloth over your face isn't being a freedom fighter. Why does no one understand the concept of pick your battles? Remember the last three dozen times you gave an inch? Do you remember? "Oh I don't really hate homosexuals, they can have whatever we've got bigger bigger problems like broken marriages or loss of community". Into the schools they went. Into the courts they went. You will not know your freedom ever again because your principles are for sale and they are going cheap.

>I wasn't expecting a reasonable answer and I can wholeheartedly agree with this. Anyone I talk to about anything political I am met with people degrading me to what they expect someone who disagrees with them to be like. Unless I agree with them 100% I am a "hee hee hurr hurr CNN watching libtard" or "hee hee hurr hurr you're a Fox News watching Trumptard" despite being either of those things. If I could believe it was all just hubris and blusterousness there would not be a problem. Your favourite politicians over-stepped. They'll do it again. They'll bash your melon in. They will brag about doing so.

>>6375 >If you don't mind me I'll continue to live "frivolously" as is my right. That's the American way! "it's my right to be a stupid asshole! I know because big daddy advertising told me so!"

>>6375 >fails abysmally But it's actually been pretty effective. Or at least it looks that way to me. It's hard to say how much the different measures contribute to reducing the rate. >Remember the last three dozen times you gave an inch? Yeah, it's a problem but I don't know what to do about it. The solution is certainly not to coof on your neighbors, you're not "sticking it to the man" or something. Maybe go coof on a politician, but they were all first in line for vaccinations.

>That's the American way! "it's my right to be a stupid asshole! I know because big daddy advertising told me so!" The price of your compliance is not frivolity. It's ruin. Which part of my argument do you think is for sale? >But it's actually been pretty effective. Or at least it looks that way to me. It's hard to say how much the different measures contribute to reducing the rate. Time spent with and proximity to symptomatic people is more worth worrying about. A lot of people had no choice because it was their job and the elderly were the ones made to pay. >Yeah, it's a problem but I don't know what to do about it. The solution is certainly not to coof on your neighbors, you're not "sticking it to the man" or something. Maybe go coof on a politician, but they were all first in line for vaccinations. Without viable opposition, all our actions are going to do is make the government increasingly irate. That's fine. Even if all it's going to get us is beat by the truncheons. We're duty bound to see it through. History must recall our dissent and our disobedience. I want the reminder to always be there. >here we cum again... amerifat burger redneck grade "logic" >are you being paid for being this dumb or it's genetical? The ones who deserve to die the most crawl into their bunkers at the first signs of trouble. Because the world needs more people who've devolved themselves back into a timid rodent If you cannot live as you ought then die as you ought you god damned flighty herd animal

>>6381 >Because the world needs more people who've devolved themselves back into a timid rodent If you cannot live as you ought then die as you ought you god damned flighty herd animal le wild individualistic misanthrope appeared

>>6375 >Real masks probably work. They would probably bring the case figures down. The BS masks being sold to people are worse than nothing Then wear medical grade masks. >I come from a soykafhole that's imported masses of Arabs without the consent of the public and now I'm having to deal with the precedent of national government mandating use of the veil. Doesn't sound like that much of an issue unless they pose a threat to the safety of the public. >If you don't mind me I'll continue to live "frivolously" as is my right. Cool, the rest of the world will continue to deal with that selfishness. You're a child and the rest of us are just your mommy and daddy. >"Oh I don't really hate homosexuals, they can have whatever we've got bigger bigger problems like broken marriages or loss of community". Into the schools they went. Into the courts they went. Homosexuals are not your problem. Just like the Arabic people are not your problem. If you want to hate a group of people hate the politicians as they actually are your problem. >You will not know your freedom ever again because your principles are for sale and they are going cheap. I am well aware. Thank you.

>>6376 >Your favourite politicians over-stepped. They'll do it again. They'll bash your melon in. They will brag about doing so. That's why I don't subscribe to bipartisan bullshit. Every politician has over stepped and every one of them deserves nothing.

>le wild individualistic misanthrope appeared >he uses "le" et tu monseur >Then wear medical grade masks. Not at all necessary for me and not at all widely available as a genuine & effective product for the elderly. >Doesn't sound like that much of an issue unless they pose a threat to the safety of the public. Dispense with this idea that the government or the public has this responsibility to you to be "kept safe". If you want to act retarded I am not going to put warning signs on everything. Take some culpability for your own actions. >Cool, the rest of the world will continue to deal with that selfishness. You're a child and the rest of us are just your mommy and daddy. I adopt risk. It's dutifully my own. You adopt hiding. It's quietly what you would want, it's easier for you, hell it's a frivolous decision for you. Whatever helps you sleep at night is the easiest decision for you in the world. >Homosexuals are not your problem. Just like the Arabic people are not your problem. If you want to hate a group of people hate the politicians as they actually are your problem. AIDS aren't a problem. Stabbings aren't a problem. No, politicians speculating on national real estate is a problem. Why if we had more affordable housing, then we could put some more Arabs in them Whatever helps you sleep at night. >I am not an NPC I hope you're comfy and you sleep well. Leave the rest of us in peace. >That's why I don't subscribe to bipartisan bullshit. Every politician has over stepped and every one of them deserves nothing. OK boo.mer

>>6387 lol, you are projecting own feelings of guilt and remorse on others and try acting Nichean as fuarrrk but it's still showing

>>6387 >Not at all necessary for me and not at all widely available as a genuine & effective product for the elderly. It isn't for you. It's to lessen the chance of others being infected. >Dispense with this idea that the government or the public has this responsibility to you to be "kept safe". If you want to act retarded I am not going to put warning signs on everything. Take some culpability for your own actions. The government isn't there to keep me safe. But fearing an entire group of people and labeling every Arabic person as dangerous isn't a good option either. >I adopt risk. It's dutifully my own. You adopt hiding. It's quietly what you would want, it's easier for you, hell it's a frivolous decision for you. Whatever helps you sleep at night is the easiest decision for you in the world. There is a middleman to this. You adopt your life to take the necessary precautions to protect yourself and others. Responsibility didn't really go away. I still have to be an adult. >AIDS aren't a problem. Stabbings aren't a problem. No, politicians speculating on national real estate is a problem. Why if we had more affordable housing, then we could put some more Arabs in them. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Not every homosexual has AIDS and not every Arabic person kills someone. I really don't know what the fuarrrk your issue with Arabs are. >I am not an NPC Go back to 4chan >OK boo.mer Are you serious? Lol

>>6388 All you ever do is make assumptions that are off the mark and nothing but your dubs are noteworthy. >>6390 >It isn't for you. It's to lessen the chance of others being infected. I have behavioral vigilence already. I'm not going to infect others. Were my confidence wavering on that point then I would not say it so boldly. If you were facing a literal zombie apocalypse where the virulence was extremely high then I would take you more seriously. We might not be having the same discussion. But to reach for the levers of a tyrant because of a mild flu is intolerable. It absolutely will not do to brow-beat the public into obedience. I don't mind if I'm going around in circles about that. I'll keep saying it until it registers. >The government isn't there to keep me safe. But fearing an entire group of people and labeling every Arabic person as dangerous isn't a good option either. How many of them are half as live and let live as you? Do you have any idea what they will do with the concessions you afford them? It's a side issue, but you do not grant state powers on telling you how to dress. You're making a terrible mistake. >There is a middleman to this. You (adapt) your life to take the necessary precautions to protect yourself and others. Responsibility didn't really go away. I still have to be an adult. I have more to protect them from than the virus. Even if for my elderly relatives it's lethal, they've not met anyone since the previous February. Their wick is already short. They've been fed this notion of fear and their lives are not worth preservation under these conditions. I have more to do to defend them from the measures than I do from flu. >Not every homosexual has AIDS and not every Arabic person kills someone. I really don't know what the fuarrrk your issue with Arabs are. I don't mind the company of a lot of them, but they'll stomp you and yours if all you ever do is yield ground. I don't want the world. I just want to be left alone in my home. That's all it is. When you come to me with that masks soykaf it's my job to fight it. I can see how the winds are blowing and the burden falls to us to try to get in the way. >Go back to 4chan Sorry what I meant to say was, you don't seem all that aware to me. What you remind me of is younger me. It's not a disparagement. I was sharper in those days. >Are you serious? It was descriptive and it fit. If he posts more I'll be serious with him.

>>6391 >I have behavioral vigilence already. I'm not going to infect others. Were my confidence wavering on that point then I would not say it so boldly. Stop trying to spin being anti-social as behavioral vigilance. It isn't hard to act confident through text on a screen >If you were facing a literal zombie apocalypse where the virulence was extremely high then I would take you more seriously. We might not be having the same discussion. But to reach for the levers of a tyrant because of a mild flu is intolerable. It absolutely will not do to brow-beat the public into obedience. I don't mind if I'm going around in circles about that. I'll keep saying it until it registers. Don't worry. You'll change your tone when the virus mutates into something actually lethal. I'm sure by then you'll shut the fuarrrk up about a piece of cloth taking your freedom away. The only thing I have registered is that you probably wear a fedora and don't leave the house, or you are 15 and trying to fuarrrk with me. You definitely are not bleeding experience in life around you. >How many of them are half as live and let live as you? I am not going to sit here and worry about it. I have about as much chance to be stabbed by an arab just like any other race of person or you with your katana collection if you left the house. I'm not going to fear an entire race of people because I don't know what they are going to do. >Do you have any idea what they will do with the concessions you afford them? I don't know and I don't care unless it starts affecting my life directly. >It's a side issue, but you do not grant state powers on telling you how to dress. You're making a terrible mistake. Why? Because I am not afraid of an entire group of people? >I have more to protect them from than the virus. Homos and Arabs aren't one of them. I'm not saying you don't have other soykaf to protect them from. But saying that you don't need to wear a mask or do soykaf like wash yourself (which is debatable if you even do) then saying you have other soykaf to protect these elderly people from is completely retarded. I sure hope you don't go near them. >Even if for my elderly relatives it's lethal, they've not met anyone since the previous February. Their wick is already short. They've been fed this notion of fear and their lives are not worth preservation under these conditions. I have more to do to defend them from the measures than I do from flu. Then take the measures to at least lessen the chance of them from getting the virus. You can't act like some jerk off that doesn't believe in it and then act like you protect these people and care about their lives. It doesn't work that way. >I don't mind the company of a lot of them, but they'll stomp you and yours if all you ever do is yield ground I don't think homosexuals or arabs want to be around you and probably stomped you because you said something extremely offensive. But they just probably don't understand your thinking right? >Sorry what I meant to say was, you don't seem all that aware to me. What you remind me of is younger me. It's not a disparagement. I was sharper in those days. I'm not going to say I am 100% aware of everything but I take the time to read and learn more if I find something I am curious about or don't fully understand. Also nice slight of hand trying to say you are intellectually superior than I am. Must of been euphoric. Lol >It was descriptive and it fit. If he posts more I'll be serious with him. I'm the one that posted it, that's why I responded to you. Old people don't say that every politician deserves to suffer. They think that some politicians deserve soykaf unless it lines up with their chosen party. Seriously, go outside and actually live your life a little bit. You might actually learn something you can't get through the internet.

>Stop trying to spin being anti-social as behavioral vigilance. It isn't hard to act confident through text on a screen You used to argue rather well. Then you got desperate, and you've resorted to the ad hominem and the shout-down. It's fine by me but I tend to reserve most of the insults for the low-effort single line posts. Unless of course I'm called a child but hey we all make mistakes right? I better unpack the next bit for our fellow boo.mers: >Don't worry. You'll change your tone when the virus mutates into something actually lethal. you know that lethal viruses reproduce poorly, right? >I'm sure by then you'll shut the fuarrrk up about a piece of cloth taking your freedom away. This is disingenuous. You know it's not the piece of cloth doing the liberty crushing. Wear what you want to wear - it's fine. >The only thing I have registered is that you probably wear a fedora and don't leave the house, or you are 15 and trying to fuarrrk with me. You definitely are not bleeding experience in life around you. You're overly invested in your point of view. Put the hubris down for a second. Go for a walk. It's still legal to go for walks in your country, I hope? >I am not going to sit here and worry about it. I have about as much chance to be stabbed by an arab just like any other race of person or you with your katana collection if you left the house. I'm not going to fear an entire race of people because I don't know what they are going to do No, you see people like you will not learn until you feel the experience for yourself. There are two groups of people who are known to chimp out, who've got "does not play well with others" written in their file. They're also spreading the virus a lot more than I do. The homosexuals won't though, they'll get you in the courts instead. It's a fun game you play with this "centrist" denial stuff but... mental gymnastic exercises won't protect you from overly-confident texts on a screen. >I don't know and I don't care unless it starts affecting my life directly. You raise the somewhat correct accusation that I'm anti-social, but then put forth the argument: "Well I'm Alright, Jack". I thought that was supposed to be *my* argument with the masks? Have some sympathy for the people you inflict upon with this stuff... >Why? Because I am not afraid of an entire group of people? No. Because you'll concede ground to Mohammed or Petey Porksaman but not to me. I'm flattered I get special treatment, but on the whole I'm less likely to bash you or sue you. >...saying that you don't need to wear a mask or do soykaf like wash yourself (which is debatable if you even do) then saying you have other soykaf [than masks] to protect these elderly people from is completely retarded. I sure hope you don't go near them. You're right anon. I never wear a mask or wash myself. I've got many bottles of pee pee and I only see my grandma cause she tries to drag me out of the basement. You see even with this? This is better than ordering them on how to live. What a preposterous notion of ordering your grandparents around. Just like all of the other blood offered to the God of centrism. >Then take the measures to at least lessen the chance of them from getting the virus. You can't act like some jerk off that doesn't believe in it and then act like you protect these people and care about their lives. It doesn't work that way. I'm clearly measuring my risks and responsibilities differently, which is what every *democracy* is to want to do. You act like everyone not wearing a mask is automatically a jerk to their grandma. Everyone not wearing one must be fuarrrking evil. When your centrist friends reach for the truncheons I'll get to experience it in my sinews and my bones. But I'm duty-bound to be here. I mustn't shirk it. I'm the feeble false-confident anti-social old idiot that stands between you and ruin. Whether or not I like it, I have to go. >I don't think homosexuals or arabs want to be around you and probably stomped you because you said something extremely offensive. But they just probably don't understand your thinking right? As long as the homos and the arabs and the non-partisans are all in agreement with "Hit him! He's wrong-thinking!" >I'm not going to say I am 100% aware of everything but I take the time to read and learn more if I find something I am curious about or don't fully understand. Also nice slight of hand trying to say you are intellectually superior than I am. Must of been euphoric. Lol You're not that aware. You keep pressing on me for why I don't like Arabs within this overarching mask debate. You could look at places like Sweden and see for yourself. You could stop coming up with excuses for their grenades throwings. As for the oneupmanship it does not matter. You're not low-effort. That's an unqualified compliment. Take it for what it is. >I'm the one that posted it, that's why I responded to you. Old people don't say that every politician deserves to suffer. They think that some politicians deserve soykaf unless it lines up with their chosen party. Seriously, go outside and actually live your life a little bit. You might actually learn something you can't get through the internet Everyone's fuarrrking shut in. And I've seen more police show up to enforce it on a snow day, than I've ever seen show up to arson or to a robbery.

>wearing mask worse than not wearing it So you would not wear bulletproof west and antifragment helmet when in combat action in army?

>>6400 False equivalence and bad faith argument. The difference here is that paper and fabric masks are counterproductive. They trap heat and moisture near the mouth which are the conditions that bacteria love. Did you notice the uptick in pneumonia after the mask orders went out? Did it occur to you that having the general population walking around with breathing in their own exhaust all day may contribute to that? If you are going to wear a mask at least wear a proper one that has replaceable filters and two valves; intake and output. You must remember that paper/fabric masks are: >Disposable/Washable >Cheap >Only intended to block fluids and large aerosols (such as sneezing and coughing) In the hospitals here in Canada the government has mandated employees wear face shields and paper masks, yet refuse to allow a proper mil-surplus CBRN gas mask. Can you see that bad logic there? >Wear the face diaper guy >N-no guy not that one, it actually works! Bad guy!

>>6401 This really just comes down to improper mask usage which a lot of shortfalls of disposable masks do. We shouldn't be encouraging people to wear a mask at all times; ideally a paper/fabric mask should be worn for an hour tops while you're in high traffic/high density indoor areas. >Canada I swear there's a team of bureaucrats somewhere in Ottawa whose entire job it is to ensure a certain standard of absolute bollocks in government policy. It's almost comical at this point how it seems like for every reasonable policy there are 2 which are egregiously stupid.

>>6401 >Did you notice the uptick in pneumonia after the mask orders went out? If not washed properly it can also result in minor throat infections.

>>6401 >False equivalence and bad faith argument. There is no false equivalence and zero bad faith. You yourself gave "contrargument" of quality of saying that soldiers should not wear vests because they wear expired and broken ones. Wearing masks is good. Wearing them in a retarded way is not recommended by anyone. It was said, told and written numerous times that masks should be changed after a period of time. >inb4 but muh government don't babysit us with masks surplus and don't tell everyone when they should change mask after probing masks with higroscope and microscope testing...

>>6401 >In the hospitals here in Canada the government has mandated employees wear face shields and paper masks, yet refuse to allow a proper mil-surplus CBRN gas mask. Lmao, you have to ask ur gov to wear CBRN? Canada, you weird.

What do you mean? Just don't get sick

>>6427 Just don't get sick. Just don't do it man.

>>4808 > my anecdotal account of survival trumps statistical data >>4797 >>4716 >>4239 The Wu-Flu has given me an excuse to go around in public with my respirator. What would fellow lains recommend to maximize aesthetic value? What I want to know is what sgetup would look the coolest while providing maximum protection? Half-mask M3 respirator + DeWalt goggles? This thread is officially a cyberpunk respo fashion thread.

>>6375 Who let this idiot in? I'm wagering to bet this loud-mouthed entitled idiot is only on delta to rant and rave about people who are different from them or who don't share the same political viewpoint. If lainchan were a politics board that wouldn't be a big issue but it is for me at least, since this is a board about making things, not throwing soykaf-fits over mask mandates like a child who's being told to put their toys away. This isn't four chan for fuarrrks sake lainons... Different board, different posting culture.

>>4238 I'd start with the IFR of covid, since there are very few demographics that have more than a 1% chance of dying from it. Not much reason to worry about catching something more than half of the infected never even have any symptoms of.

>>6289 Late ass reply but I walked up 4 flights of stairs carrying a heavy object wearing a generic surgical mask and was out of breath for minutes afterwards. That never happens when not wearing a mask.

>>7160 >What would fellow lains recommend to maximize aesthetic value? Something like these people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPbVRpRgHso

>>7201 Unironically the masked guy looks pretty cool

>>7200 Why, it's almost as if we use these hole in our faces to breathe!

>>7200 >Late ass reply but I walked up 4 flights of stairs carrying a heavy object wearing a generic surgical mask and was out of breath for minutes afterwards. That never happens when not wearing a mask. >"My lung capacity is trash because i dont exercise" Youre basically the george floyd of your generation, to be honest. Someone should tell the marathon runners who ran with masks that they're liars and couldn't have done it because its impossible (im gonna site your statement as a source)

>>7221 Gosh, guess those studies showing hindered breathing from surgeons was all nonsense!

>>4785 >The pandemic will end as soon as everyone wears a face mask for 3 months. Terrorism will never end as long as victims submit.

All this just means proper respirators should be subsidized instead of soykafty paper masks.

>>6370 >If it deprives you of so much oxygen then why has no one ever said anything OSHA has long regulated mask use, because it is dangerous. Hypercapnia can kill you. >pick your battles That's what Australians did after the Port Arthur Massacre, and now the Victorian government has brought in troops to keep the entire state under house arrest. The civilian population are helpless because they are disarmed, because they 'picked their battles' and didn't preserve their right to keep and bear arms. If you don't stand on principle, you fall back on nothing.

>>7225 There is no possibility that the public can use PPE as necessary to prevent viral transmission. This is the primary reason that no study has ever shown masks to prevent viral transmission in practice, neither before Covid, nor after. Respirators do not remotely begin to solve that problem, and no mask mandate ever will. Vaxipads are no more than symbols of compliance. Social distancing simply fractures society, preventing people from being interdependent, and forcing everyone to stand alone against whatever the state throws at them. Forced Covid vaccination is a crime against humanity, because all the vaccines are either mRNA, which the FDA regulates as experimental gene therapy, or otherwise experimental, and skipped animal trials. All prior attempts to create a vax for coronaviruses caused ADE, which was discovered in animal trials. The covax skipped animal trials. The vaxxed are the animal trial.

>>6295 The problem with that is the masks are contaminated with viruses - if they work. Just touching the mask once it has viruses on it will spread the virus to your skin. Not to mention that the entirety of your body is no less contaminated. There are three levels of functional PPE. 1) a complete envelope that has air pumped in from an uncontaminated source. 2) a complete envelope that has has n100 valves through which to breathe contaminated air, and an airlock decontamination process that prevents contaminating you when you remove the suit. 3) talismans. Masks don't prevent viral transmission, and no study has ever shown they do.

>>6379 You might note that the numbers rise and fall with the seasons, just as they always have.

>>6385 Nothing is more true than this.

>>6392 >the virus mutates into something actually lethal That's actually being manufactured now. Antibiotic resistance is bred by using antibiotics irresponsibly, killing the easily killed, and leaving the more deadly pathogens to spread. That's how Marek's Disease became a deadly pathogen. Leaky vaccines that suppress symptoms allow the more deadly strains to be passed on. Pic related. The covax are leaky vaccines. They don't prevent infection, they don't kill the virus. They do suppress symptoms. They allow the virus to spread from vaccinated subjects. It's not the unvaxxed that cause this, because the only security from symptoms of deadly mutants they have are medications that actually kill the virus and prevent it from infecting them, or spreading, like Hydroxycholoroquine and Ivermectin. Leaky vaccinations cause increased virulence and pathogenicity.

>>4808 I strongly agree with you, although I am less sanguine about the deliberate propaganda and duplicity. I note these are global trends, with few dissenters amongst governments. Transnational corporations appear to be making every effort to increase fear, and decrease availability of facts necessary to make reasonable judgments. I don't think Even 201 ended.

>>4813 I admire you more with each of your posts I read. You are hitting a lot of nails on the head, and driving them home.

>>4823 >Wearing a mask is piss easy and benefits everyone. No, it isn't. First, masks don't work. Second, OSHA has long regulated masks in the various professions, such as automobile painting, in which they're necessary, because hypercapnia can kill you. Finally, no one uses masks properly. It's not easy to use one properly. You also neglect to reckon that the CDC itself said that no more than 6% of the deaths ascribed to Covid could have been caused by Covid. The numbers reported are ~20x higher than Covid actually kills. Back in January 2020 China started pumping out fear porn. People dropping dead in their tracks. People being welded into apartment buildings, and tens of thousands of them calling for help in the night, like the ghosts of wolves howling at the moon. Armed men in doctor's scrubs shooting, ascribed at the time to killing the infected rather than treating them. The fake numbers continue that. It's terrorism. That crap from 2020 in Wuhan was theater. Fear porn. It wasn't accidental. It wasn't organic. It was deliberate, intended to do exactly what it did, and the media continue today to misreport the numbers. Terrorism is a war crime. Don't let terrorists win. The people lying to you are committing a crime against humanity for profit.

>>6238 >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29140516/ >...the existing evidence is sparse and findings are inconsistent within and across studies. That metastudy did not show that masks prevent viral transmission in practice. I've read dozens of studies, and your list of links isn't more convincing. No study has ever found masks to prevent viral transmission in practice.

The pattern I've noticed when it comes to studies of mask efficacy is that the tighter the study controls for variables the more effective that study will report masks to be. There's a sort of Scientistic mindset which insists on the removal of as many confounding factors as possible and attempt to get a "purer" view of a subject. If it removes a variable which isn't inherent in the subject it must be Good (this is probably an example of misalignment). I don't know about any other lainon, but when I go to a grocery store the experience is anything but "pure". I don't believe that the experience of even the most exceptional mask wearer is anything even remotely like the conditions experienced in a material sciences laboratory testing the efficacy of different materials in filtering sub-micron particles.

>>7234 >People dropping dead in their tracks. Didn't happen. >Tens of thousands of them calling for help in the night, like the ghosts of wolves howling at the moon. Didn't happen >Armed men in doctor's scrubs shooting, ascribed at the time to killing the infected rather than treating them Didn't happen What you are doing right there is fear porn, ironically, wishing something bad was even worse than it was

>>7221 Carry 30kg up four flights of stairs (double height floors) with a mask on and tell me its no problem.

>>7262 Yeah anon they weren't howling like ghosts of wolves because ghosts don't exist, it didn't happen, silly

>>6410 Not hard to get. Issue is they don't consider it an appropriate mask. Sure enough, it protects the wearer better than anything else, if properly fitted. As well or better than disposable N95 units. The catch is that all that protection is applied solely to the inhale. Anything the wearer exhales is just vented out for all around to sample. So if an infected person were to wear a cartridge respirator, the protection of others in enclosed spaces would be minimal. Sure, you might argue that you'll just wear it all the time and thus never get infected, but that won't persuade the pencil pushers. Because they know you and I, and themselves, are utterly incontinent in our autistic retardations and will fuarrrk up eventually. And they'd rather a bunch of autists in a room covering up with something that catches their soykaf with modest efficacy. The math favours catching the outbound over trying to filter all the inbound.

>>7270 You've very out of shape anon. I walked up a 13 story apartment building with a total of 50kg with no troubles. I had to do it twice because the client somehow broke their fuarrrking plumbing mere minutes after I fixed it. With idiots in the world like that requiring masks might be the least that can be done to suppress the spread of this virus. (lucky the vaccines are out now though)

>>4238 why r u afraid of the coronavirus?

>>6352 Funny how this bad boy works wonders (no pun intended with the number!), 100% better than the real "mark of the beast" our ancestors kept warning us about the "end of the world" in many different religious/oracle scripts. Protip our ancestors watched the future.