Lain Commune Thread #3

Once again, the previous thread has hit the bump limit. This thread is essentially intended to behave like the previous two. Relevant links: Previous Thread: https://lainchan.org/%CE%94/res/1784.html Wiki: commune.lain.ovh Because I'm posting this thread, I will set the agenda by reiterating the basic plan for the American branch as I previously devised it: 1.) Decide on the form the commune will take (urban vs rural, etc.). 2.) Take stock of the resources each would-be participant is willing to contribute to the project. 3.) Select a state based on the results of steps 1 and 2, as well as other factors like where participants currently live. 4.) Form a nonprofit, nailing down details of governance and placing resources from step 2 into the care of the corporation. (I suggest that we get actual legal help once we hit this part). 5.) Use the corporation from step 4 to purchase property, provided that we don't already have property from some contributor. 6.) Pack up and move in. We are currently working on step 1. This poll is for resolving that step: https://www.strawpoll.me/17736390. If you voted before, don't vote again. Once again, voters who select "Other" should post below explaining what they have in mind. While I've focused here on the American branch, this thread is intended for discussion of other branches and the general principles that will apply to all branches.

>>2944 (last thread) >If your worry is survival and/or self sustainability gardening is just a small >part of the equation. I don't know about others but personally I don't have any problem with the specialization and automation of labor. I just want somewhere where automation and specialization result in a reduction of mandatory labor rather redirecting workers into decreasingly significant occupations in order to fund the consumer economy. I want a society that maximizes the time to focus on things of interest to me without losing the freedom of fiscal independence. So I'd support buying propane, a tractor, or even going vegetarian if that meant reducing the amount of mandatory labor.

>>2953 >poll To the two individuals who voted "Other," you're wasting your votes if you don't explain what, specifically, you have in mind. I thought I made that clear.

1. other. Wherever it is, needs fiber optic. This narrows the selection quite a lot for the US. Chattanooga has the fastest US internet. They have $299/mo for 10gbps fiber. That's only about $200 more a month now that I pay for internet only trash level service (300/30 mbps) in a major US metro. I see a 5br/3ba on zillow there for only $130K right now. Split that 5 ways and we're looking at ~$30K each after closing. Probably another $5K each for repairs. $60/mo each for the 10gbps fiber.

We should secure a warm-water port

>>2973 If you're seriously advancing this idea, you should elaborate on the concept.

You know, I never specified the conditions for ending the poll. Let's tentatively say that we'll take the most popular result one month hence or once no new votes have been recorded for a week, whichever comes first.

>>2973

This is just going to end up being a sweaty autist den, just join a local commune with more normal people

>>2979 The sort of social culture in places like that is nearly opposite of what anyone here is either used to or adaptable to.

>>2980 you mean actual human beings interacting, probably talking about other stuff too than just computers and japanese cartoons?

>>2979 >sweaty not necessarily >autist den I think this is what we want. Obviously, we don't want legitimate, severe autism, but some amount of what is colloquially being called autism these days is desirable. As far as I can tell, putting effort into personal projects and actually applying your brain with some amount of intensity is currently enough to be labeled an "autist". I'd rather have that than the vapidity that is generally found in "normal people." Do you actually find these "normal people" interesting? I generally do not. >>2981 >actual human beings Now you are apparently attempting to disqualify human beings that you don't like from being authentic human beings. You can say that I'm nitpicking or that you didn't mean it literally, but I wonder whether you could defend whatever it is that you're actually trying to say with this against the "and what do you mean by that?" game. If you have a valuable opinion, put more effort into expressing it precisely. In your statement's current form, all I can see is an irrational prejudice with no substance. >other stuff too It's strange to me that people become upset with the autistic on account of only wanting to talk about specific things when "normal people" seem to have pretty limited topics that they are willing to discuss as well. If you only seem to want to talk about 2nd-gen Pokemon, then you're autistic, which is bad, but if you only seem to want to talk about the going headline, the week's weather, sports, blockbuster films, or the same few popular bands, then you're a "normal person," which is good. The division seems almost completely arbitrary to me. It's almost like an organized bullying campaign against people who won't focus all of their attention on what "everyone else" cares about (which is obviously not what everyone else cares about but is instead only what the bullying faction cares about). Legitimate complaints with the autistic include things like not being able to communicate with them when necessary. "Not caring about what I want them to care about" seems to me to be an illegitimate complaint. >computers and japanese cartoons I'm not even sure what to say. It's absolutely obvious that the users of this site have other topics to discuss, considering that they have discussed them in public view. Once again, you may complain that I'm taking you too literally, but even your underlying point seems to fall apart when we consider the breadth of topics that have been discussed within this community. I don't even understand how you can be enjoying this website while possessing these attitudes. I don't want "normal." I want abnormal. I'm sick of people extolling the virtues of a normalcy that never appealed to me, and I imagine other lainons agree. Close the world, open the nExt.

>>2982 >I think this is what we want. Obviously, we don't want legitimate, severe autism, but some amount of what is colloquially being called autism these days is desirable. As far as I can tell, putting effort into personal projects and actually applying your brain with some amount of intensity is currently enough to be labeled an "autist". I'd rather have that than the vapidity that is generally found in "normal people." Do you actually find these "normal people" interesting? I generally do not. Oh, please. These "fake autists" you're talking about are useless wastes of oxygen that rice their useless obscure Linux distro and "think a lot". They post on obscure imageboards and talk about cartoons. At least normal people actually get things done. Why would you want to congregate together with a bunch of smelly NEETs?

>>2982 >I don't even understand how you can be enjoying this website while possessing these attitudes. I don't want "normal." I want abnormal. I'm sick of people extolling the virtues of a normalcy that never appealed to me, and I imagine other lainons agree. Close the world, open the nExt. I'm here because I like talking about technology. I would hate to live with you people, though.

>>2983 >>2984 Well, I think this thread is just not for you. Those who think like you do are probably not participating in it. Those who do not think like you do will probably not be convinced. This is, I think, a thread for your "useless wastes of oxygen" and "smelly NEETs." That's not to say that I think that they are useless or that they are necessarily smelly but that you would think of them that way. You don't want to live with them. They apparently want to live with each other. This thread is for the facilitation of that goal. It is not for you to insult fellow users or for you to mock the common purpose. I will consider further posts of this nature derailment. If you're willing to drop the labels, prejudices, and generally poor rhetoric and say something precise, meaningful, and, perhaps most importantly, useful for our purposes, then by all means continue to post.

On the subject of sweaty nerds; is this vandalism or an actual response: https://gitlab.com/nyanstar/laincommune/blame/master/Mission-and-rules.md#L49 I'm kind of following this thread and my aim is not to make fun of peoples way of life generally but if this is an actual response it doesn't look good.

>>2987 Humorously enough, in the scene they reference from Atlantis, Mole is threatened with a bar of soap. Anyway, looking into it, it seems that cleaning oneself in this manner is fairly effective, provided that it's done correctly. The mention of only requiring a parking spot for a van suggests that this individual may live in their vehicle, which would explain this behavior as well as the use of a "poop bucket." I don't think it's anything to worry about by itself, not to mention that they explicitly state that they're willing to use running water "if available" rather than "if necessary," which makes me think that the comment was intended to show that this individual would be willing to put up with harsh conditions for the sake of participation in the project. In any case, it seems they would shower if it became a problem. This is a nonissue.

>>2981 Listen dude, the kind of people who would left behind society to escape this living hell aren't normal people at all. If you don't like it then you are probably better in the normal user world,just re download facebook and instagram, go to parties, get some bitches and (((enjoy life))). GET OUT of this website. The people on reddit will be more than happy to hear about your yoga classes and that time you went to The Carnival in Rio de Janeiro. It's obvious you aren't part of this community.

>>2990 everyone is welcome. stop acting like an authority. wtf.

>>2990 >>2991 These posts are also derailment, but the use of the triple parentheses makes me ask a more relevant set of questions: what proportion of our lainonauts can be expected to be, well, the type of people who use the triple parentheses? Can the commune withstand the kind of political argumentation that we've seen on this site? If you're expecting everyone living there to share your political opinions (or to even be close to your political profile), then I think you have another thing coming, and I say that to everyone involved. By the way, we're talking about politics on a meta level here; if this turns into low-level political argumentation, that will also be derailment.

>>2990 shut the fuarrrk up, what the fuarrrk is wrong w you lighten up geeeez

>>2992 >what proportion of our lainonauts can be expected to be, well, the type of people who use the triple parentheses? More irritating than anything else is the way that poster speaks as if they are in some sort of majority here which they obviously aren't and are offended by the suggestion that anyone here doesn't share their views. I don't know when right wing paranoia became the default for every imageboard in existence but I'd like to believe lainchan is bucking the trend.

>>2992 I don't really care that much about politics on the commune because we all are against mass surveillance and that's really my main motive to flee society (not that it's the only one). >>2996 COPE. Who of these two persons do you think is more likely to be a freetard/anime fan/security expert/drug user/philosophy fan (aka a lainchan user). Do you think chad is here (((wasting))) his time talking with a bunch of autistic neckbeards instead of partying, having dates, earning money (for the sole purpose of increasing is value in the dating market), (insert any normal person hobbie here),etc

>>2996 it's literally <5 people. I have met many lainons irl. They are mostly really chill people.

>>2997 binary either party normal person or autism I am angry being the only options is too simplistic. Plenty adjusted people just hide their powerlevel and do both. In reverse outliers of society don't have common ground just by being an outlier. Your poli spectrum image serves itself as an example.

>>2997 What's wrong with partying and having dates? You think this commune that will never exist would ban parties? And females?

>>2998 >I have met many lainons irl. How did you accomplish this feat? I'd like to point out that the individuals you met may not be representative of the general user population on account of being the types you would meet irl. >>2999 >In reverse outliers of society don't have common ground just by being an outlier. This is a principle that makes more sense to me all the time. I wonder how much cohesion we can expect when we're living together. >>3000 >What's wrong with partying and having dates? The point of that post had nothing to do with whether anything was wrong with it. Also, don't post those bears. I know a guy who legitimately had to call his mother out of distress when he heard about the stain shift.

>>2996 >>2992 Not him and to be honest i think both 2990 and 2981 acted childish, but i don't think any political views should be supressed here. It's very disappointing to see (and this is especially common for arisuchan) that people say "ahh we are the big cyberpunks, nobody controls us, we don't care about normal person soykaf, we are free, etc" and then somebody says he hates jews or anybody and then these so called cyberpunks lash out "aahh mommy he used the k word, what a monster evil incarnate, don't allow him to do so". Or even funnier, he used the triple parenthesis, therefore he is a scum. People have the right to hate whoever they want and they have the right to group them based on ethnicity or whatever if they feel like there's a pattern or statisctics that makes that a logical act. Nobody have to respect that, but i think those opinions should be allowed in these chans, until he/she doesn't violate the rules and doesn't act like a jerk. If you think most of these "right wing paranoids" act like jerk, well maybe that's true because most people act like jerk when they get in any kind of conflict. Also Joseph Heller said “Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.” Also, i like to debate about things like this, formally and respecting rules (both rules of the chan and rules of the debate), but obviously this isn't a political board so there's other places for this. But i say, most people sometimes hints political opinions, even when he/she doesn't want and this happens here too.

>>3000 I never said anything about banning, commie. People have the freewill to do whatever they want, and I have the freedom to dislike such a things and express my opinion as well. >What's wrong with partying and having dates? Well the problem is that normal people VASTLY prefer to do such a thing than say, going to some obscure place to learn about cybersecurity, linux, freedom, the 14 eyes, wikileaks, backdoors, politics, you now the actual topics that matter. Why? because sexual reproduction is the single most important thing in their minds (actually it's not their fault because it's also the most important thing for the other 99.99999999% of living beings that REPRODUCE sexually), it's the reason why we are even talking about forming a commune instead of a revolution, because deep down we now people don't care, and won't care. People are only ready to act of if they are starving and their children are dying (and even then sometimes that is not enough, just take a look at venezuela for example). People have limited time and energy, how many of them are willing to sacrifice what little free time they have got, what (((happiness))) (I fuarrrking hate that word, see why: https://youtu.be/wIXtN2S2d2w ) they have got, to come to some desolated place in the earth to rebuild civilization??? > And females? there is not way to reproduce (currently) without them so we need them despite their backstabbing nature

Also to be ontopic: i can't vote. soykafty recaptcha is fuarrrking with me, every time. i allowed it's js just for the sake of this thread, but it gives me pictures to find god damn fire hydrants for 10 minutes straight and still won't allow me further. It does that to me every time. (Some say it's because i'm gentoo user and using a highly modified browser that sends no data about things that usual browsers send) People should consider trashing recpatcha. So i just write my opinion here: In my opinion creating a free commune in an urban environment is impossible. The only choice is arable rural land. Yes, it won't feel cyberpunk at all to get up at 4 in the morning and go dung out the cattle and give water to the horses. But in urban environment, all kinds of people will come and go into your so called commune and there's a soykafton of rules that doesn't apply to rural. You have to pay more taxes and higher price for everything except internet. In my opinion the essence of a commune is to have your own rules, make your own things, create your own life. You can't do that in a city, there's too much people and too little place. If you know about an example or an idea that proves me wrong please share with me.

>>3004 >commie Stopped reading there. Right on schedule, anyone with a different opinion is declared a communist.

>>3005 >recaptcha It's supposed to prevent vote manipulation as much as possible within the bounds of Strawpoll, although I'm wondering how much it helped. It seems like we've had more votes than I'd expect from legitimate use. I'm expecting to see a flood of last-minute votes, like an EBay auction. I suppose we'll have to renegotiate in the case that there's any particularly suspicious activity. Moving on... What would prevent one faction from seizing power in this manner? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Food_Cooperative_Wars I personally lean toward Anarcho-pacifism, so calling the cops to deal with it doesn't sit well with me. Also, would we have some way of sniffing out undercover cops looking to make drug busts, CIA agents trying to pull some MKULTRA stunts, etc.? Don't laugh at the futility; infiltration prevention is pretty well-understood at this point, so the resources are out there. I know that these scenarios seem a bit far-fetched, but, as others have mentioned, if this gets spun the wrong way politically (separatist hackers? cyber terrorists in-the-making? gasp gullible youngsters?), we could have trouble.

>>3006 well, people in this thread are planning a commune, so they are communist aren't they? just joking, i know the difference is joining this commune is optional and consensual.

>>3009 Even that crappy political compass test has a more nuanced version of the spectrum than has been demonstrated here today though. There are libertarian communists, ancoms, etc.

It may have been of a rude tone what >>2990 said, but lets be honest hes right. I mean isnt the idea of a commune of cyberoutcasts who are into geeky soykaf and all sorts of drugs a means escape societies bounds. Why would any well adjusted individual who is capable of living on his own without causing a framwork want to live on such a place? Most of my friends and aquantainces are druggies, but they seem pretty normal compared to what might be the average lainon. I would hope to see this work out one day, good luck to all those brave souls who attempt this.

>>3011 >causing a framwork I legitimately can't tell what this part was supposed to mean, so I can't answer your question. Are you just saying that the communists will be weird? I'm not sure that I understand your point.

>>2990 >(((enjoy life))) of course, being happy is a jewish conspiracy

>>3004 >the need to reproduce >backstabbing nature Man you trying to make a commune or a New World(tm)

>>3002 >How did you accomplish this feat? I'd like to point out that the individuals you met may not be representative of the general user population on account of being the types you would meet irl. three via IRC, two were people I met in classes

>>3016 You met two of this site's users in class? How popular is this place? Maybe I was wrong when I said the poll seemed to have too many votes. I wonder how big of a commune we're looking at, then...

>>3017 *a lot* of people lurk, especially the tech boards. SEL is also more popular than you might think, among the right crowds.

this commune will never work if you allow toxic individuals in or impose any set of ideological rules. This commune will become your family. Think about who you would want to be in your family, think about what families should be like.

(((toxic))) There, I triggered both of you at once Present Day, Present Time! AHAHAHAHAHA! I'm most interested in the commune where I'm surrounded by cute fem bois in programming socks. Location, urban subterranean. Like abandon subway stations or something.

>>3021 go write a fanfiction then >>3020 not the same lainon but like... depends on toxic... >>3019 but the fact you have some "toxic" individuals in mind means there already is ideological clash...... >>3018 "among the right crowds" that's meaningless... MLP is popular among the right crowds too (read: bronies) >>3009 now if you learnt something about communism too *eye roll*

>>2953 As far as funding goes, since so many Lains are already versed in comp-sci topics. Why don't we all contribute to one github, then elect a Lain to take credit for all of the work themselves. Then that Lain gets a job with their new impressive CV and feeds x% of profits back into the commune. I'm sure there are Lains who want jobs but have no qualifications. If the credit-taker wants to leave, we update the github to someone elses name and the credit-taker can still use their old job on their resume to get a new one.

>>3020 We don't do that here.

>>3024 i think, you could achieve the same through a doujin circle, no?

>>3020 >>3021 the alternative is to let obnoxious assholes ruin it for everybody. >>3023 >but the fact you have some "toxic" individuals in mind means there already is ideological clash...... I don't think it is ideological to not want to live with people who are entitled, unhelpful drama queens.

>>3027 I think you're misunderstanding the problem. You just stepped on a political landmine. "Toxic" is currently a charged term. If you had said something like "problematic" or "troublesome," I don't think anyone would have complained. I think essentially everyone agrees that there are certain individuals who wouldn't fit in. I'd like to ask everyone to "file the serial numbers" off of their language, politically speaking, within this thread. Charged terminology tends to suppress critical thought.

>>3026 I feel fewer Lains can make doujin than can contribute to a github. Also (whilst I don't have any solid numbers) I think there's a larger profit in a comp-sci field.

>>3028 "problematic" would cause the same problem as "toxic" though :/

>>3029 yeah, computer science would amost definitely make more money... maybe then a "studio" that works on stuff, that way you make sure everybody gets their fair share and don't have to deal with issues like the leader leaving. though i 100% support github idea. (or any other similar service, before someone jumps in to tell me about github being soykaf or whatever)

>>3031 A lainchan anime studio sounds great,lately there's a lack of good cyberpunk and hentai anime (like yosuga no sora and school days, you now hentai with an actual story and not just an excuse to fap). We could use kickstarted like Little Witch Academia did https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1311401276/little-witch-academia-2 We don't need to censor the gore,genitalia or topics like they do in japan. We could become a really popular studio that way (A TON of people hate current anime because it geared towards ironic weebs)

>>3028 to be honest if someone is angry because of the political implications of language used in a non-political context, that is a huge red flag in itself.

>>3033 or to put it differently: I am intensely suspicious of politicizers

>>3032 But the problem with this is that we've looped right back around to regular work. We'd just be another studio startup trying to make rent. Wouldn't the NEET part kind of be lost?

>>3035 You'd be doing what you want for a living, that in itself is light years beyond NEET, and any joe job, and any nine to fiver, and any career you're not really interested in. An animation content creator studio would be great, there's a real vacuum left by all those little outfits that collapsed with Flash and Newgrounds.

>>3032 i kinda doubt any lains can draw

fuarrrk it lets do both

Why don't you try organizing a single meetup to see if you can all stand being in the same room together before buying land and importing females to breed with? Based on what I've read here I won't be attending but if you can't do that much at least, forget about starting a "community".

A couple of days ago I saw this stencil in a street of a small Chilean city and was reminded of you guys.

>>3027 Apple computers kicked out an "obnoxious asshole" and it nearly ended the company. Then he came back and turned it into the wealthiest most successful company on the planet.

>>3041 He's right. You guys should meet in a place before buying anything or doing anything major. Speaking face to face is a lot different than on the internet. Or even an internet voice chat. Also, are we really going to buy a land and start living from agriculture? Maybe living in some city in South Korea will be something more technological, which is the thing that we are better at.

>>3045 schway af

>>3050 isn't south korea quite expensive? also visa... >>3049 doesn't change the fact he was an arse. also only he and the closest to him know how much it was him and how much it was his ability to surround himself with smart people

>>3049 are you trying to build a company and make a lot of money or live in a commune?

>>3049 Is this intended to be a serious argument? You've found one case where keeping such a person around was beneficial. It only takes one case where kicking such a person out was beneficial to cancel out your argument. Please read about how to argue effectively. This is not how you do it. This is a blatant logical failure for multiple reasons.

>>3045 Is that a door?

>>3050 >buy a land and start living from agriculture I think there have been two efforts by SA goons to make self-sufficient communes (one in Hawaii, one in Texas) which have both failed spectacularly. Unfortunately, I think the alternative of living in/near a city and working is going to end up with people subsidizing others in some way which is inevitably going to cause friction in some way. I don't think it's impossible, but a meetup should probably before any substantial action takes place (so, prior to step 4?).

Does anyone here lives in a latin american? I live in cali (colombia) and I've never meet anyone in my whole life who cares about privacy (I've meet some people who uses linux but they just it because "hackers use it" or they are just communist)

>>3073 PR here, I've never even met anyone who uses it, but even I only use it on a laptop, really (too many programs I need don't work on it).

>>3074 PR? paraguay? Here, in a public university called "univalle" there are linux desktops all over the campus because they all are bunch of communist, however having a personal computer (laptop or desktop) is becoming increasingly rare, nowadays people do their "computing" (really just gacha games and social media) in their smartphone. The only normal people who even bother with a computer are gamers so if you try to actually convert one of them to linux they all go >hurr durr x game does not work with proton >hurr durr what about the epic/blizzard store >lol dude what are these shitty open source games look at the graphics LMAO >whatever bro,I will just buy a ps5, I don't even need a computer anyway Every single time.

>>3084 so convert those communists.

>>3085 The majority of communist are pro censorship/centralization, not to mention tech illiterate. Do you really think they will listen to me?

>>3086 >Do you really think they will listen to me? as long as you won't be condescending... have you tried talking to them? communism itself has nothing to do with censorship, though they might quite well understand the need for privacy. whether they are "tech illiterate" or not i can't judge. i've never met them. but one would think that would have nothing to do with their ideology

>>3087 Well at least here, those who are communist are usually: >University student (thus, social media addicted), that means that once he does not see any big trendy youtuber,facebook group,{insert whatever social movement/group normal people are into}, talking about these kind of topics he will dismiss anything that I said to them. >Coming from a low income family (and thus tech illiterate by their circumstances) >Not studying anything stem/business related (same as above, they ended up being tech illiterate with poor income) As for their pro censorship views? 9 times of 10 a communist is someone who is really low in the social or money making hierarchy. That usually breeds people who just want to live in a safe space bubble where they can stop getting bullied while the government hand them free money because they are being "oppressed". Initially they agree about the need of privacy but are usually ready to sacrifice it because: >b-but what about the terrorists? >w-what about the hate speech? hurr durr that can damage someone's reputation, some people even kill themselves because it. Once it comes to this point they are not able to make any compromise because this is the whole reason why they became communist in the first place (they where unable to compete in the real world, and they want some sort of compensation for the psychological damages inflicted to them) And yes, I've tried talking to them.

>>3088 >Coming from a low income family (and thus tech illiterate by their circumstances) IME actual tech ability/literacy has very little to do with income. You can buy a shitty used laptop for $50 on craigslist. I got mine for $20 and it's my main programming platform. >That usually breeds people who just want to live in a safe space bubble where they can stop getting bullied while the government hand them free money because they are being "oppressed". This is not at all what most communists want. Unless you mean berniecrat "socialists". But that is neither here nor there. >because this is the whole reason why they became communist in the first place (they where unable to compete in the real world, and they want some sort of compensation for the psychological damages inflicted to them) this is almost never the reason people become communist. Unless you mean it's the reason you assume they become communist, which is clearly colored by your own assumptions and biases about what communists are.

This is quite a cute idea, but I guess it won't happen for obvious reasons. Hope it serves as the seed for something interesting still, a meetup or learning to survive if you want to go rural, something like that.

>>3090 As I said I'm just talking about the communists in my country. In colombia a low income family is an actual low income family, they don't own a 2 floor house, have a car and a decent education. Also colombia has an average iq of 84 Daily reminder: https://invidio.us/watch?v=5-Ur71ZnNVk&hl=en-US&local=true&autoplay=0&subtitles=%2C%2C This mean that if you choose a random communist here chances are that he is not in the movement for the same reasons a german or american one would be (I even tested one who was supposedly "very smart" and he only got a score of around 89 or 90 (I don't remember exactly the number but he was a 2 digit iq subhuman) I am not kidding people here become a communist just to have an easy life, not to become the next Ubermensch. 9 times of 10 they either look like pic related (not that being ugly is bad, I'm ugly as well but it illustrates my point about them being a bunch of losers), or are poor drug addicts who fantasy about the idea of having an UBI so they can't finally stop working and just smoke weed 24/7 without any worries about money (not that I have anything against drugs, humans have the freedom to decide to do whatever they want with their bodies).

>>3086 >>3088 >>3090 >>3092 Your concerns with communism have very little to do with this thread, and this kind of posting has the potential to derail the discussion. If you have something to say regarding the lainchan commune (read: not Colombian communists), say it. Otherwise, stop. >>3091 We'll see whether it happens. I predict failure at step 4, as that step requires more than just focused dreaming.

>>2979 >local commune there are like 200 communes in the world, that doesn't seem practical

there are at least 5 in my town alone. A lot of them aren't public.

I think what is prioritized as #1 is not where a start should be. The first thought should if normal utlities should be used or if our own utilities could be provided. For example power from the grid vs power from a water mill, solar panels, etc... Since this is for projects obviously an environment near salty sea air is not ideal because it could rust electronics and machinery too easily.

>>3119 I consider that part of step 1, although everything that goes into that would be too complex to put into a convenient poll. Feel free to discuss such things.

Buy land next to each other and then just be super chill anarchist neighbors.

>>3141

>>2953 >4.) Form a nonprofit[...] Could this be better handled by a system of smart contracts instead? I don't know that much about the technology, so that's why I'm asking. Here's a link for the uninitiated: https://blockchainhub.net/smart-contracts/. I guess we would have to convert our funds to cryptocurrency, though, so that could be a problem based on its volatility. Anyway, I think this would allow us to (securely?) enforce our agreements without having to involve the state or employ violence. That sounds pretty sexy to me.

>>3147 The point of failure remains the verification step IRL which has to be some third party the smart contract has to rely on. Thereby it can't provide any additional security.

>>3152 I don't think I understand you. Could you please provide a simple example scenario which would illustrate your point? (I suggest replacing Alice and Bob with Arisu and Lain, but that's just my aesthetic preference.)

>>3120 Well I think the best approach is make everything as self sustainable as possible so everyone can get by even if they are poor because utilities and food would be free if it's all self sustained. Creating our own connection to the internet seems unlikely though so that may have to be from a normal paid service. Cable isn't absolutely necisary. There does exist internet service by radio towers, satelites and even lasers passing data through the air. Alone they are not perfect but perhaps combined it works better? I don't know if it's even possible to have multiple connections from different sources to load data to create a better wireless connection. As for food it's unlikely enough people can provide everything but I'm sure some gardening enthusiasts can cut back on buying supplies. I also think everyone here should look into Volk Fi. Think of it as a peer sharing mobile plan. Either that should be invested in or a similar idea can be produced by anons here to provide cheap to free mobile phone service.

>>3153 Every time you set a condition in meatspace you have to trust someone acting as your analog sensor. I.E. Karen is drinking all the office coffee without replacing. How can you regulate this injustice with a smart contract? Someone has to log it and put it online into a form a smart contract can digest. That means the one putting it online is in full control of the contracts behaviour - maybe it's Karen's friend and they blame lain for drinking everything. Smart Contract can't do better than trust and fail when it's meatspace sensor betrays it.

>>3161 I don't think an actual smart contract would be necessary to do this, but it's pretty easy to image a system in which every individual has a personal password that somehow bypasses a lock on the coffee pot. That would get even easier if it were a Keurig-style machine where it's all single-serving and you can thus imagine a simple dispenser. Check the passwords, find the culprit. Actually, you wouldn't have to find the culprit if you just set up the dispenser so that it would only dispense so many pods for each password. Also, I think smart contracts can have publicly-readable content, if that's your problem. I don't know how it works, but I don't know how this could possibly be an endorsed technology if you have no idea what you're agreeing to. Obviously, you're not really talking about coffee, but if we apply the same sort of ingenuity to every problem...Where, precisely, do you think we'd run into problems in this commune plan, in terms of smart contracts and this general style of enforcement? We may as well try to solve real problems while we discuss the viability of the approach.

>>3165 In that case the security measure to bypass is the passwort - steal it, copy it. With or without contract - the attack point remains the actual security measure in meatspace. A contract can't replace a less safe measure, it's building on top of it without addressing the underlying problem.

>>3161 >Karen is drinking all the office coffee without replacing. How can you regulate this injustice[?] A pretty simple way to deal with this, and the most common so far as I understand, is to make goods and services free, but to mandate working hours and to have a system of checks to insure individuals are performing their work (managers, time sheets, etc.) It might be that the best way to deal with theft of non-communal property (personal belongings and such) would be to simply take it up with the police, and rely on the law and infrastructure of the sounding state. Otherwise you'd basically be creating the same thing but running it locally which would to some extent waste resources unnecessarily.

>>3172 I misunderstood the conversation, apologies. It seems like this sort of thing is actually best fixed by simple conversation.

>>3171 Of course, you can only make a system so secure, but if it's better than the usual methods, we should do it, right? If you're worried about whether someone drinks too much coffee, this has to be better than leaving the pot unsecured (I just want to reiterate so we don't get too far off-topic that the coffee pot is representative of the larger system). We should get the /sec/ people involved; they know more about all of this. Anyway, are you suggesting that participating lainons would not know how to keep personal passwords safe? It shouldn't be terribly difficult. It seems like your argument could work just as well in arguing against public-key cryptography, even though that's the basis of many currently useful technologies. "What if someone gets your private key?" is not a question that defeats the usefulness of public-key cryptography, and "What if someone gets your coffee password?" is similarly not a question that defeats the notion of locking up the pot. I wouldn't expect a smart system of the sort that I'm proposing to provide perfect security, as perfect security does not exist. I think it offers distinct advantages over other systems, though. >>3172 >It might be that the best way to deal with theft[...]would be to simply take it up with the police, and rely on the law and infrastructure of the sounding state. Otherwise you'd basically be creating the same thing but running it locally[...] I vigorously disagree. For some of us, I believe that this commune is directly intended to be a means of subverting the control and means of control of the state, so turning right back around to rely on that same state is not at all "the same thing," even if you can draw some comparisons between our system and the state. This is especially true when enough /sec/-style thought and effort could potentially make actions like theft (of serious valuables, anyway) outright infeasible (which, in spite of my joking in pic related, need not be prohibitively expensive) instead of moderately feasible but disincentivised by the threat of having one's freedom stolen through the use of violent force (i.e. involving the cops). Even if others aren't so supportive of my techno-pacifistic views, I think we are generally supportive of techno-anarchistic views, and so I don't believe most of us would appreciate cops anywhere near our project. I don't want to speak for everyone, but that's my impression of the situation. If anyone disagrees, please state your opinions for the thread to see. I think I would personally be happiest if this commune weren't at all on the map of law enforcement, the media, or the general public, which is, I think, doable if we get a nice plot of land with plenty of privacy trees or whatever and pay for it in some inconspicuous fashion (and everyone involved knows how to keep a secret, but that's a pipe dream, I guess). That brings me back around to my original question, before I envisioned the commune being locked down like Fort Knox. Can the emerging technology of smart contracts (or anything similar) be used to facilitate the initial purchase (and communal ownership) of land without passing through the usual legal channels? This could serve to reduce our public profile and also our number of interactions with lawyers, who seem to me to be obnoxious and, under this concept, potentially unnecessary. If you disagree with that last bit, I'll ask you: which of you would personally be willing to go talk to a lawyer (in a professional setting) about this project? Anyway, I'm talking about putting the power of enforcement in the hands (or hand-held devices, at least) of the participants, not outside parties, and it may be more appropriate to say that our arrangements would, in fact, be self-enforcing, without the need for punishment. Aren't you lains excited about the concept, at least? There may be apparent roadblocks, but let's see if we can overcome them before we turn around and give up. I think people frequently forget that many problems are, in fact, solvable. Not every objection that is immediately raised is fatal to the core idea.

>>3175 Question is where does the contract add value? If the security relies on a password system then that's it - either the system works or it doesn't. Contract doesn't affect it.

>>3178 We would be able to establish an agreement according to arbitrary specifications in code and then securely put money in the form of cryptocurrency into the contract. From there, the funds would be dispensed only as the contract specifies. I don't know what the current technology allows for, but I'm imagining a system where funds can only be removed from the address at regular intervals corresponding to regular financial meetings at which everyone agrees on the necessary sum (that's not something I'm advocating for, but it's an example of the kind of control that is possible). A more immediately useful application would be setting some condition that, if not met within a certain period, would automatically return funds to sender; this would allow for confident donation. In the same way, individuals who backed out might automatically receive some set portion of the funds they put it. Any flow of funds or resources that can be realized digitally could be enforced in this way. It's like creating a constitution that is almost completely secure in terms of inter-member financial interaction. Maybe what I'm saying is that the benefit over some simpler password system is having everything controlled by executable code. Outside of finances, I'm not really expecting to use this particular technology so much as a smart system of some kind (made up of smart subsystems, of course). If it sounds like I'm technically ignorant, that's because I am, but it's my understanding that this is all pretty much realizable with currently-existing tech. Also, I just realized that we're approaching Sons of the Patriots and the war economy from Metal Gear Solid 4. Pic related

Both forming a corporation and using smart contracts sounds excessive for something that likely never have more than 20 people involved

>>3180 It's easy enough to get burned in a no-stakes deal with a single trusted friend. 20 people pooling valuable resources requires a solid foundation. Even if it doesn't absolutely require it, lainons are usually a bit paranoid, so providing such a foundation should help them to buy into the idea.

>>3181 Aren't there already legal requirements to uphold claims of reason for funds if funds were placed through a crowd funding method? Since if it's not followed as specified that's fraud.

>>3182 That may be, but is relying on that the best we can do? I don't think so. We have an opportunity to really do things differently (and hopefully better) here.

>>3179 >Maybe what I'm saying is that the benefit over some simpler password system is having everything controlled by executable code. The whole issue is that you ain't replacing the password system. The condition for contract fulfillment is the password system. As said before you're building on top not replacing. Secondary contracts have a cost to run. It seems much simpler to agree on spending and pool only the necessary money to finance agreed projects over creating contracts which lock funds that then can only be spend on agreement while also harboring the risk of getting locked out / emptied by a error in the contracts code.

>>3184 >agree on spending and pool only the necessary money to finance agreed projects The benefit of the contract is that it's trustless. It may not make a difference if we're making every decision based on unanimity, but if we were to agree on something slightly different like decision by 2/3 majority, wouldn't the contract be necessary?

>>3185 I would rather retain the ability to bail than be forced to help financing something i disagree with. If 1/3 wants a cnc and 2/3 a 3d printer it seems to me fundamentally more fair to let the groups fund their own respective projects than force 1/3 to bolster 2/3 project.

>>3175 >I'd be willing to do more labor to be more independent. That's cool man, I was just operating off my first reply to the thread >>2954 the idea being that the commune would exist to reduce mandatory labor above all else so that members are as free as possible to pursue their passions. It seems to me if you don't have police and judicial system you'll have to recreate it locally, reducing time to pursue one's passions. For example how would you deal with the situation of one member committing violence against another?

>>3186 That's fine, but my point is that there are arrangements which could potentially be improved by the use of this technology. That particular arrangement is just an example. I will say that a review of the current limitations of both smart contracts and cryptocurrencies suggests that it may be a few years too early for this to work. Specifically, the currently small number of white market vendors who accept cryptocurrencies poses a problem, as these technologies cannot be used securely if we can't connect directly to desired (outside) goods and services, as far as I can tell.

>>3187 I don't have anything clever to suggest in the event of a serious crime of that kind, but that doesn't mean that we have to get law enforcement involved for every issue, either. I think it's possible and desirable to establish a middle ground between the usual relationship with law enforcement and complete autonomy. Ensuring that members don't have their valuables stolen is (almost) as simple as having good walls, good doors, good locks, and good procedure in using all of them, so I don't think it would be a labor problem. Even the violence problem could be assisted by similar physical security measures (e.g. body armor), but I guess that sounds a bit nuts (by which I mean our cultural attitudes wouldn't permit it, even if it is arguably reasonable), so I guess we would just "have to" involve law enforcement after the fact. I really hope that lains wouldn't go around slapping/punching/beating/stabbing/shooting/poisoning/raping each other, though. Honestly, I think suicide could be a more likely disruption, given what I think I know about us.

I feel like there was a moment where this could have actually happened and now it's just turned into brewing soykaf and larping. Some rich user needs to just buy a plot of land and take action or something like that else nothing is ever going to happen past talking. I'm going to ask around the anarchist and squatter communities see if I can find anything usefull I suggest you guys also take some real action. I think in the first thread someone mentioned something about how convincing a bunch of neet weebs to leave the house long enough was never going to happen, looks like they were right.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidblack/2019/02/04/blockchain-smart-contracts-arent-smart-and-arent-contracts/ This article explains part of the serious limitations with smart contracts, so I guess I'll stop pushing for the idea with the fervor I had previously. There are two major problems: they aren't currently smart enough and they don't interface well with the legacy systems that currently determine ownership, etc., within the borders of the United States. Specifically, buying land with them would be difficult. I still advocate for the employment of digital control systems which could in some cases include smart contracts in the development of this project, but everything in its place.

>>3186 >>3185 Why limit funds only to people in the commune? If something can't be obtained for free why not have others pool in money as they please? I mean many people wouldn't live there but more would be into visiting to work on a project or to borrow on site some equipment that they helped pay for. >>3187 Having a personal police would lead to same problems as state police. It gives certain people authority over everyone else which is a power that can be easily abused. In the past what was done was beck and call where pretty much everyone capable near by would come to someone's aid. Basically everyone could be doing the policing. There are other ways too but that's the quickest compared to a localized personal police and normal public state police. It can take up to half an hour or more for police to arrive depending where you live. Their response times not only are effected by how far from a station you are but if you are in a poor neighborhood or rural community vs a rich neighborhood. Guess which one gets priority if multiple calls comes in at once... >>3189 Violence can be solved or at least reduced by teaching everyone conflict resolution skills. One I know the name of is Non Violent Communication. Also have meditation be part of a daily group routine. >>3190 Know any Anarcho-Transhumanists or Crypto-Anarchists? Their ideologies is most relevant I think.

>>3192 >In the past what was done was beck and call where pretty much everyone capable near by would come to someone's aid. I don't doubt that, and honestly as you mention later on that's basically how it's done in some communities anyway. My question is what comes after that? Do you lock up the perpetrator in a private jail, have a private judiciary meeting, and then make the individual privately fulfill their sentence? I guess you do as >>3189 mentions and just have a mixture of this and the state.

>>3193 you use the word "private" where it is not applicable. In a community setting, these thigns would be *owned by the community*, not by any external government force or any individual. You could consider it a form of private property if you say everybody is individually an owner, but imo if you bring the logic of private property into this kind of thing it gets really bad really fast.

>>3193 >then make the individual privately fulfill their sentence It sounds strange at first, but the individual might semi-willingly (or is that pseudo-willingly?) submit to certain punitive measures if the alternative were expulsion from the commune. I think such measures probably work better when they aren't blown out of proportion as I believe they are in usual society. If we're using the imprisonment concept, I would expect it to be more like "go sit in the naughty corner for an hour and think about what you've done" than "we will physically lock you in a box for 20 years." I personally find punitive measures distateful, though, so I'd like to eliminate them to the greatest feasible degree. Prevention is more agreeable to me, as I've previously expressed.

>>3193 >Do you lock up the perpetrator in a private jail, have a private judiciary meeting, and then make the individual privately fulfill their sentence? I'm not sure if and how that can be done without violating US law since it's unrealistic that the commune would take the form of an oil rig or a boat or floating manmade island due to the danger and difficulty involved with that. Native American reservation is unlikely as well because many tribes from influence of the US government have a racist requirement of a certain percent of their tribe's ethnic background to be let in. Even if it were legal, prison is not the ideal solution. The ideal solution is restorative justice and rehabilitation, making sure the best results for everyone involved and the community. If it's nothing too serious but serious enough it can't be solved they can always just be exiled.

What is the state of things for EU? Cam I please get some write-up on progress? Will I be able to visit you guys any time soon?

>>3197 As far as I can tell, progress on any branch apart from the American branch is essentially nonexistent. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Well, per the poll and >>2975 it would seem that we have selected arable rural land as the form of real estate which we hope to acquire. I hope there are now no objections regarding this, as the community has had ample time to argue for any alternative option. If you demand any particular features of this land (e.g. a body of water, good internet service, etc.) , I suggest that you post about them before we move to step 2.

>>3208 if this soykaf was real, I'd prolly be a taker, no jokes

>>3208 Not OP, But you should consider locations in rural arkansas near memphis. Land cana be had for sub $100 dollars per acre, the climate and soil are quite conducive to growing food and other biomass and there are ample supplies of trees and other useful raw materials. There are even hematite and other mineral formations on or near the surface, which is great for doing your own metallurgy!

>>3208 >Take free land from a dying town >Wait for everyone to die (or just kill them) >Instant mayor of an established town

>>3210 Thank you for your contribution, but please save such suggestions for step 3 on the agenda (state selection). >>3211 >free land I didn't even realize that there were such programs in the United States. This will be something to consider as we move forward.

>>3212 Shit is there alot of free land. Remember that story a few years back about the white supremacist trying to take over a small town and turn it into a den for he and his neonazis but got shut down? It wouldn't be implausible at all for us to do the same (minus the racism of course) but in a less "take over"-esque sense and in more of a peaceful inhabitance. We could choose an exceedingly small town to avoid too much outside interaction, and all they wanted to begin with was more citizens anyway. And yes, when they die, we'd own the place.

The wiki at commune.lain.ovh has been vandalized. Please revert it to its previous state. Let us complete step 1 and begin step 2 at the same time. Would-be participants should post below using the following format: >personal pseudonym (for later reference and identification) >features that our property must have in order to ensure your participation (distinguish between features which must be acquired at time of sale and features which can be constructed) >negotiable features that you would like our property to have but do not demand >amount of money (in US dollars) you are willing and able to contribute to the startup phase >amount of money (in US dollars/year) you expect to be willing and able to contribute to continued operations >real estate that you would be willing to donate for our purposes (size, location, general features) >any other useful things that you would be willing to donate for our purposes (e.g. a tractor) >special skills that you believe would be relevant (e.g. you are a telecommunications engineer, have a background in agriculture, know about real estate law, etc.) >rough percent chance of how likely you are to actually uproot your life in order to participate >anything else you believe to be relevant Even if you are a hikikomori with no resources, it is useful for us to know as much. The important thing is to understand what we have and what we want so we can understand how to use what we have to get what we want.

>>3214 yeesh is really nobody gonna reply :(

>>3208 It seems unnecisary it has to be land good for growing crops. We are talking just a handful of people like 50 best case scenario. You can just make greenhouses that are like controlled environments or make some small gardens for each person. Being near running water like a river would allow for water mill power generators. Sunny places allow for solar water heaters. The idea of having farm animals is rediculius to me. They will just make everything smell and waste land space. It would be okay if we are just talking a few chickens to lay eggs or goats to milk but anything else is a bad idea. Raising livestock is inefficient use of energy. If any of you want meat and not pay for ity oud have to opt for game hunting. You obtain energy better either through vegetarian diet (which I am not vegetarian btw) or by hunting. Raising animals just to eat them is too much work and time and hassle. An abandoned missile base or other large abandoned area assuming it's not dangerous would be pretty convenient due to few structures needing to be built as many already are there.

>>3215 It would seem that they aren't. As the OP, I'd be lying if I said I weren't irritated by this development. Why have I even been writing these posts? Apparently, these posters aren't even going to fill out basic paperwork. Perhaps I should go first. Following the format as I outlined it above... Pseudonym: Pelagium Requirements: I don't require much. Give me personal space and privacy (both from other communists and the neighbors) up to ordinary standards. Electricity is close to a must, but I don't need to be on the grid in the usual fashion (solar panels could do it, for instance). A means of procuring food and water without extraordinary difficulty is, of course, necessary. No ugly surprises: toxic waste, an abundance of venomous snakes, etc. That's probably obvious. Requests: I want the usual businesses and services to be within an hour's drive or so. I would like gainful outside employment to be conveniently attainable. I hope for reliable Internet service, but even satellite is acceptable. I desire running water with showers and such, although I'm open to alternatives. I prefer a temperate climate with cold being preferred next. I prefer relaxed local building codes, laws, and taxes. Local law enforcement should not have a history of abuse, especially since we're basically techno-hippies. Startup Cost Contribution: Estimating, I reasonably expect to be able to contribute between four and ten thousand dollars if this comes together in the next two years or so. There's obviously a bit of spread here, but I'm dealing with some uncertainty at the moment. Ongoing Contribution: I would probably have to find a job in the surrounding area, so my ongoing contributions could vary significantly, although my background would suggest a modest income. On one hand, I hope for a relaxed work life. On the other, I'm fairly frugal, and money that I didn't need would probably be at the disposal of the commune when necessary. I don't think I'll be the cash cow among us, in any case. Real Estate: No applicable real estate Donatable Items: No useful tools, etc. Special Skills: This is perhaps not a special skill, but I believe myself to be an unusually capable learner and researcher. I can pick up most simple skills when needed, provided that I have an instructor or (better yet, really) an abundance of guides on the Internet. Cooking, planting, etc. should be doable without extraordinary difficulty. When we reach the complexity of engineering, this no longer applies, for reasons that are hopefully obvious. I can self-aggrandize and call myself a grandmaster algorithmist, but I really mean to say that I'm good at following simple step-by-step processes. Chance of Participating: My chance of participating varies based on the degree to which the project seems to be sustainable. Perhaps luckily for me, I expect to be at a point in life at which it should be convenient for me to move in about a year, although I'm willing to contribute funds before that. Out of my reasonable hopes for my life at the moment, this path is the one that excites me most, although I would, of course, bail if things took a disappointing turn for whatever reason. All things considered, I think 75% is my rough upper reasonable bound. The lower reasonable bound is difficult. I won't even venture a guess. Other: I hope to have a mobile domicile soon, so I should prove very easy to accommodate in residential terms.

>>3214 pseudonym Maxine must have features Good agricultural program, good direction for labor, and comfortable housing negotiable features please, for the sake of our sanity and sanitation alike, individual bathrooms amount willing to be donated/amount of money expected to be donated I've very little money, I live with my parents; I'm more than willing to contribute labor and put time in real estate ^ Other Donations some furniture and a chipped shovel, houseplants skills I'm very involved in gardening on a hobbyist level, and as good a learner as the OP percent chance of participation 5%, whoops, I'm sorry but I have no possibility of this til a few years from now when both I and the commune are more well established; I'm more than happy to help in any way I can for now

>>3219 You guys need to step up and fill out the outline, it's not even a real commitment yet, and we can get nowhere like this. We should start using a bit of DDT for private messaging.

>>3223 DDT sounds like a good idea at first, but wouldn't it be difficult to share information with new participants?

>>3227 We can give out a discord server through ddt. Or publicly, whatever

>>3214 Pseudonym: B. Traven Requirements: I think my only initial requirements for the commune would be privacy, clean water, and sufficient shelter. Intermediate concerns would be a small place to garden, low effort personal domicile heating, stable production of a diverse diet, and running water. Requests: I like a change of seasons, some typographic variation, forests, and I prefer to setup somewhere with a high quality of living like folks have up in the north east. I don't think it's unreasonable to get all of these things without harming the wallets too much when you consider the research I did for the wiki on cost of New York, and Maine in particular. Initial Capital Contributions: This depends almost entirely on when the commune is started for me. I currently have ~500$ in the bank which clearly isn't enough to do anything with. I graduate from university in two years at which point I intend on working while living with my parents and growing my food for around five years building up pure savings. I'd be willing to stop working early and contribute equivalent to other members, so long as I had enough in savings to set up somewhere new if things don't go to plan. Ongoing Capital Contributions: Ideally the commune would be self sustaining, so it would depend on the nature of the need, and would likely result in me pulling out from the interest developed on my savings since my arrival. Real-estate Contributions: While I'll have some land to work over the next few years it won't be my own so I can't offer it. If the commune isn't established in the around seven years it would take me to become fiscally established I'd likely buy a piece of land with the description provided in my "Requests" in Maine, and wouldn't be apposed to sharing so long as the community respects and protects nature sufficiently. I was looking at hundred acre lots. Other Material Contributions: Gardening tools for one person, and a large seed bank, once again depending on the time frame the seed bank will be of more or less use, currently it doesn't have any calorie crops in it for example because you don't typically grow those in small gardens like mine. Useful Skills: I intend on getting work in statistical reasoning about risk so I should be reasonably capable council for management decisions like "How much of our land should we cultivate to insure we can feed ourselves?" or investment decisions and the like. Also I'm a reasonably decent gardener, and depending on the time I could have practice feeding myself with my agricultural labor. Likelihood: This is the lifestyle I intend on living regardless of the commune. The primary constraint on my joining is the design and implementation of the commune its self. Other: As I mentioned I need to build up capital reserves and finish university meaning the most I contribute in the medium term is seeds.

>>3223 If a medium of communication other than this thread is necessary I'd strongly prefer we just use the #commune channel on irc.lainchan.org which has already been established.

>>2953 TLDR (actually did read #2) I don't remember what the goals of building lain commune, please explain what the is purpose?

>>3208 When a minority of people vote for something that isn't a good sign. The poll was also written in a way may have mislead people away from non airable land by calling it a trailer park and some of the other categories actually overlap with previous ones which reduces the proper vote tally >>3214 personal pseudonym: Ether Non negotiable property features: A source of water for running water ideally an aquifer for a well because it's more difficult to contaminate. Toilets not outhouses. Electricity of some kind. Be within range of cell tower signals for emergency purposes and a source of internet if no other source is available or buildable. Also should be accessible by no more than a 5 minute walk on non drivable terrain (forest, foot bridge, sand, boulders etc). That is in case someone is injured and has to go to a hospital not a personal reason. No more than an hours drive to get to and from the commune so it doesn't become a cult I am held hostage in. Weather no hotter than 74°F unless air conditioning is made available in which case no hotter than 85°. Need personal space can't deal with constant socializing. Not in a place in a zone prone to disaster such as near a place tornadoes are common. Not toxic or radioactive or otherwise hazardous zone. negotiable property features: self sustainable power supply (can be built), large abandoned infustructure, dome homes (to build), a kiln for ceramics (can be built from dirt ) Startup financial contributions: 0$ sorry I am broke and have no means atm. That may change later. Financial maintenance contributions per year: That depends on my income at the time and if I even wind up involved more directly. Real estate: NA Item contributions: I am not sure I have anything useful unless someone mentions it. A item request list should be made not just land feature request then everyone knows what others need beyond the obvious. skills: Nothing professional level. Some natural medicine knowledge, some psychology knowledge, basic cooking, simple woodworking, some soft metal work, I did circuit building once, personal advice giving. Likelihood: It's more a matter of I am capable than if I want to. I'd want to at least temporarily but I am a shut in so i can't be counted on beyond brainstorming ideas Other: wouldn't likely maintain permanent residence at the common unless it's my last resort or if I developed some relationship with a girl there It's more realistic there was started a squatter community so no one has to make any huge commitments to spend money or live there as primary residence. There are abandoned places all over you just have to find a good one away from trouble. Stuctures could be built using naturally locally available resources such as making a dirt bag house for example. How much consideration has been made to get involvement from people other than lainons? Only one person here even mentioned it >>3190

>>3232 Sorry, not too familiar with forums, how do you get to that channel?

>>3233 For the sake of a life more withdrawn from society, more secluded. Of course there are already communes like this, but the creation of this one is for the sake of being around like minded people and to a point, the novelty, more so the excitement in showing a forum can make its own commune.

>>3235 >Sorry, not too familiar with forums, how do you get to that channel? Ideally you'd have a IRC client alternatively, if you just want to quickly join the channel, you can navigate to the webirc and login with a username of your choice and the channel #commune: https://www.lainchan.org/irc.html

>>3237 Oh, I understand. Thank you.

>>3232 I'd like to suggest that we have both for everyone's convenience sake, if that's alright. Personally, I'm just more accessible on discord, and it has a lot more features.

>>3239 >I'd like to suggest that we have both for everyone's convenience sake, if that's alright. Personally, I'm just more accessible on discord, and it has a lot more features. Okay dude that's cool, I certainly wouldn't stop you from making a discord channel (or whatever they call them) even if I could. Just be aware that not everyone will join it some for /sec/ reasons and others just to avoid making another account.

>>3234 Yes, the poll I created was not perfect. My ultimate goal seems to have been achieved, though, which was creating some amount of consensus, or at least the impression of such. >When a minority of people vote for something that isn't a good sign. It can be alright if that minority is sufficient to accomplish your goal. Anyway, one group may go farm and one may live in a warehouse or whatever. Others are free to champion their own causes, preferably in other threads. The largest amount of interest seems to revolve around the farm, though. >mislead people away from non airable land by calling it a trailer park I suppose people could live on it if a town were close enough. It doesn't seem to offer advantages, though. Maybe it would be cheaper. If the money situation is still very tight, I suppose it will be something to consider. >some of the other categories actually overlap with previous ones I considered naming the Other category to something like "nautical," but I wanted to expand it. Honestly, I didn't work on it very hard because I didn't expect that category to beat out the more conventional options, and the fact that only a few "Other" voters specific the content of their votes suggests something. I guess I sound incompetent and careless now, but I didn't expect to be the driving force behind this project. Apparently people need someone to rally around. Well, that's not quite it. They need a consistent plan, which is difficult to produce without a consistent individual. All the same, I hope to be the kind of "leader" who leads by putting in the work and saying things that are reasonable rather than bullying. If I get out of line, just put me under the guillotine, lains. Continue to criticize my contributions as necessary...just don't criticize to the point that our "progress" (if it's worthy of the word) vanishes like so much smoke, if you understand me. I'm just trying to get a protozoan out of the primordial soup. It would have been better if you had voiced these concerns before the poll ended, but maybe you just weren't around. >a zone prone to disaster >otherwise hazardous zone What, you don't want your wishes granted? Pic related > It's more realistic there was started a squatter community so no one has to make any huge commitments to spend money or live there as primary residence. I don't think you will find many lainons willing to live that way, but I've been wrong before. Also, I think we generally want this to be a primary residence. Do you actually have experience squatting on American soil? It sounds risky. >How much consideration has been made to get involvement from people other than lainons? It looks like there hasn't been much consideration of such at all. My personal opinion can be summed up thusly: outsiders are yucky and I don't like 'em. >>3232 >>3239 >>3240 Whatever we do, we need to have a system such that new members can join and catch up on previous decisions and information. For now, public posting seems preferable.

>>3240 Unrelated but I wasn't even aware discord wasn't secure... I deleted my account a while ago for other reasons and was gonna make a new one for this but I'd like to hear. Apologies but as far as computers I'm just about mainstream, though I'd like to take my understanding farther.

>>3242 >Whatever we do, we need to have a system such that new members can join and catch up on previous decisions and information. For now, public posting seems preferable. Agreed. >>3243 Any large free service run by a company is going to make you the product, that's either going to happen through manipulating you into buying things (advertisements) or by developing a psychological profile of you to better manipulate you into buying things (data harvesting). Usually both.

is there any actual lain commune or hackerhouse. I couldn't find one in this thread.

>>3244 I'm aware of that, but that's not how discord goes. They didn't even have ads up until their nitro game section, which you can just ignore. There's also no way for them to expand their profile as they'd have to directly monitor all messages, which they don't.

>>3245 You can't get in without the secret knock anyway.

>they'd have to directly monitor all messages, which they don't. lmao

>>3247 >Information we collect may include but not be limited to username, email address, and any messages, images, transient VOIP data (to enable communication delivery only) or other content you send via the chat feature. >We may transfer your information with your consent. >We reserve the right to update or modify this Privacy Policy at any time and from time to time without prior notice. >https://discordapp.com/privacy Discord is relatively new, and modern trends in silicon valley companies is to take massive losses initially to gain market dominance and then once they've congregated all the users on the planet sell their collective souls. Slack is doing this exact same thing only they're public so you can see their year after year losses, and continual investment despite this.

>>3252 What can I say, that is concerning. Good thing I don't have one anymore. Thanks for reading up my helpless ass.

>>3243 >>3244 >>3247 >>3251 >>3252 >>3253 I think that's enough about Discord. Please return to more direct discussion of the commune. For all of you tuning in for the first time, I request your reading everything posted so far. Off-topic exchanges have a way of perpetuating themselves when you don't do so.

>>3242 >The largest amount of interest seems to revolve around the farm, though. Vegetable, fruit and herb gardens can be built on non arable land. It just takes bringing in soil from elsewhere or adding nutrients and fertiliser as far as I am aware. I'm no expert. >It would have been better if you had voiced these concerns before the poll ended, but maybe you just weren't around. I didn't take the poll to be an end all be all. >I don't think you will find many lainons willing to live that way, but I've been wrong before. Also, I think we generally want this to be a primary residence. Do you actually have experience squatting on American soil? It sounds risky. Live what way? It doesn't mean living in a total dump. Unless you mean the risks of police kicking people out and if that is the case there already is a similar threat if it's purchased land because all it will take is one person hacking or manufacturing drugs then get caught and you will have police with a warrant and guns to your face with their boots on your head then will confescate anything they like as asset forfeiture even if no criminal charges are on anyone. http://endforfeiture.com/ Squatters in some places actually gain ownership of land if they lived there for several years with no attempt by an owner to kick them out. I haven't squatted myself though. I have to look more to see how it works for public land but I assume as long as it's out of direct line of sight or not purchased to become private land no one will spend money trearing something down. https://definitions.uslegal.com/s/squatters-rights/ >It looks like there hasn't been much consideration of such at all. There should be >My personal opinion can be summed up thusly: outsiders are yucky and I don't like 'em. There are plenty of people that never heard of this site who would fit right in or at least would be a great deal of help in planning.

>>3256 >Live what way?[...] I was referring both to the conditions of life and to the legal situation. While you're correct in saying that there are no guarantees, I think there's an obvious advantage in at least ostensibly owning the land. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems clear that there's a difference between being without rights for a period of years and living with the possibility of being on the wrong end of civil forfeiture. I may die in a car accident if I don't wear my seatbelt, and I may still die in a car accident if I do wear my seatbelt, but I think my preference is rational when I choose to wear my seatbelt. Maybe that analogy is inappropriate. You tell me. >There are plenty of people[...] I'm afraid that we wouldn't be able to sufficiently separate such people from the general population such that the "basic Lainish values" would be preserved. Please assuage my fears by explaining how we could do so. How would we recruit these people?

>>3257 I did some looking and saw a few people online claim the key to their squatting on federal land is claim any structures you built you just "discovered" and you need to make claim to posessions if they ask if something is yours. In the case of the national parks which I dont think is a good local but you just say that you had only just got there so that they will only consider you a camper. I also am starting to think that squatting on public land is different from private land legal wise. Apparently there was a Homestead Act long ago that allowed a person to acquire land they had improved through labour. I could not find a guide how to accomplish this though and it involves filing government paperwork at some point. There are other ways to aquire free land other than squatting and homesteading. Several cities give out free land. There even is some in a city in Colorado currently which could be a location to look into because it's fairly central to the US, sunny weather, and legal weed. https://dimewilltell.com/free-land/ Here is a handy guide to cheap construction techniques. http://www.dirtcheapbuilder.com/Home_Building/

>>3257 I'd also prefer a sound legal basis for residence.

>>3260 One thing I forgot to mention. If you want to actually own the land privately it's actually better to not have all the documented ownership fall under all the same people. The reason for this is to isolate police reach in the hypothetical case someone had the law on them. Basically any place where an illegal activity can hypothetically be more likely take place needs to be it's own seporate property. This helps protect some people and some property from civil and criminal asset forfeiture.

>>3261 >If you want to actually own the land privately it's actually better to not have all the documented ownership fall under all the same people. I think the idea was to have the land owned by the non-profit we establish.

>>3262 But you still can sectioning up the land while still having it function like one place. Non profit organizations do service to people outside the organization. You're thinking of a not-for-proffit. How can anyone make decisions if they don't even know what these words mean? Not-for-profits usually can't qualify for tax exemption. This also may exclude it from some of the free lots I linked to but I haven't checked each one's requirements yet. So where is the advantage of a not-for-profit? I suppose it's possible to make a non-proffit if it is formed with a stated goal of science but that may be much more difficult to pull off or may contradict previous stated goals. It's unlikely it can be filed as a religious group of Lain worshippers because it wouldn't fit a goverent recognized religion status. https://strategiccfo.com/non-profit-vs-profit/ https://www.wallstreetmojo.com/non-profit-vs-not-for-profit/ Some other options are outlined here. Though it doesn't really explain pros and cons for this type of project https://www.ic.org/wiki/legal-structures-intentional-communities-united-states/

>>3263 >Non profit organizations do service to people outside the organization. You're thinking of a not-for-proffit. It actually looks like the distinctions are a bit more complicated than that, but I think this is beside the point. The basic idea is to hold it as a collective legal entity. The distinctions involved in that can be hammered out later on when we hopefully have an actual lawyer involved. You don't have to be an expert to contribute general concepts, even if your language is not precisely correct. Anyway, would you suggest a scheme like >>3141 where we individually hold connected plots? Do you predict any drawbacks associated with this option in particular?

On the subject of the wiki being vandalised : I was away for the past month so I couldn't really work on it. It has been reversed, but will come back again. It wasn't a one time thing, it was done multiple time from multiple IPs. At this point I see a few options : - give up on the wiki - ban all IPs except those that will be requested in this thread ; this will be a pain for everyone and most likely kill any participation in the wiki - replace gollum by wiki.js, which also uses git and has integrated authentication ; that's a pain for me and will take some time to be done. I hope you will forgive my lack of responsiveness, I wanted to provide a wiki to help the debate, as I'm interested in this potential commune, but I probably wouldn't join it and so all this has a fairly low priority in my (quite busy) life.

>>3265 Turns out it wasn't so difficult after all. commune.lain.ovh now runs on wiki.js. The content should be all there, read-only. If you want to edit, leave (throwaway) contact infos in there and I will send you your a login and password.

>>3265 >>3266 Thank you for your contributions. It is perhaps too late in the development of Wired culture to be surprised by such things, but I honestly find it baffling that there are individuals who would abuse the system in such a fashion.

>>3264 Well yeah I don't fully grasp the difference but from what I could make out there is a significant difference between non-profit and not-for-profit. About the suggestion of everyone having personal property in their name but sharing the land the pro is the segmentation I described (though that may be accomplished other ways). The cons are it may make transfer of ownership as people move in and out may be more time consuming and all it would take is one person to reduce the available land by not wanting to share or trying to sell to an outsider for proffit.

>>3214 In the last five days, as far as I can tell, we haven't had any more responses to this post. This is the post that represents the greatest amount of progress toward the goal of having an actual commune so far, and further progress is not being made for as long as this post continues to be ignored. I'm starting to think that posters only read what is visible from /mega/ instead of catching up on the whole thread. I must say, I'm feeling rather demoralized on account of this weak response. I'm wondering how one knows when a plan is just not going to come together, especially when it seems that previously-displayed enthusiasm dissipates when simple requests are made of involved individuals.

>>3270 The fact that even those individuals who filled out the survey don't intend on joining the commune for some time is a bad sign. I've been fairly active in the research (http://commune.lain.ovh/places/united-states), and discussion, although with occasional gaps and general delay, and even I mentioned that it will be many years before I can do this sort of thing. All that is to say while I'd really like for this project to succeed, and I'm willing to do what I can, I doubt that it will.

>>3276 That's why I keep trying to push for the concept of making everything as cheap and easy as possible without compromising on the objective too much because that makes it all more likely to happen due to how the cheaper it is the less you rely on a large group for financial support and the easier it is the less you rely on a big group for other kinds of aid. Actually I really think this would be much more likely to happen if it's not solely focused on permanent residency. The so called commune should be a place that anyone vetted in can stay at for a quick visit or a weekend or a few weeks or a few months or an i determinate time for sake of having a place of refuge and/or a way to work on projects together without the drawbacks of distance. So in other words it should be set up so occupants may change from time to time. This will make it more interesting because no one has to fully uproot their life to become involved. They can just donate and visit and do what little they can and with enough doing that with help of a couple more dedicated individuals something may actually rise out of the chaos.

>>3276 Also just to clear things up >>3277 is not same Lain as >>3270 I am who posted about free lots available in the US. At this moment I am looking into additional low cost options.

>>3277 I don't see how to make it cheap. You've posted about free land, but it looks like those programs require you to build houses to the standards of local codes, and that takes money. Taking donations from transients sounds fine, but it doesn't account for the startup costs, and a core group would have to manage those funds anyway, so it seems that it does little to change the early actions we would have to take. Maybe I'm not understanding something. Please tell me if I am.

>>3279 Now that I think about it, that bit about building the house is kind of missing the point anyway. Even if we could acquire free land without having to build a house, we would still have to construct facilities for our own survival and comfort. That's not free, and it's probably not particularly cheap, either.

>>3280 >Now that I think about it, that bit about building the house is kind of missing the point anyway. Even if we could acquire free land without having to build a house, we would still have to construct facilities for our own survival and comfort. That's not free, and it's probably not particularly cheap, either. I mentioned earlier that I would estimate that this would cost around $5,000 per person and would be far greater than the cost of the land at optimally around $1,000 or less per person. That was assuming individual domiciles though, a collective arrangement would be cheaper. I'm not certain about the other lains but cost doesn't resolve my issue unfortunately and their would still be significant delay in my joining.

>>3279 That's why I also posted a link that explains all alternative building methods such as dirt bag homes, earthships, haybail homes, dome homes etc. The dome homes or any prefab is most likely to be to code without much hassle hiring a contractor to design everything and any project work can take place in big metal shed type buildings which are relatively cheap for size and up to code. By cheap I meant relatively cheap in scale to what is being discussed. You can't get everything for free and also have full legal ownership otherwise you have to squat in places like like Slab City. There are even potentially cheaper ways but it requires giving up on the idea of rural land and aquiring homes or appartments in an urban or suburban area.

>>3283 >There are even potentially cheaper ways but it requires giving up on the idea of rural land and aquiring homes or appartments in an urban or suburban area. Please post about them. The plan as devised seems to have become untenable anyway. Adapt and overcome, I suppose. That said, I'd like to reiterate to everyone reading that we need to know both what we have and what we need in order to move forward. Even if we don't end up on a rural plot, the basic information requested in >>3214 should be useful for most eventualities. Please fill it out if you're at all interested in participating. Also, I'm Pelagium ( >>3219 ). I suppose I should let everyone know that I've had a sudden realization about my potential near-future lifestyles, and so the odds of my participating have dropped from those I posted before. I won't estimate the severity of that drop numerically, but I'd say it's a significant change, or at least significant enough to mention given that I seem to be the current highest contributor in terms of startup funds by a large margin (worrying, really, given the actual amount of my potential contribution). Outside of a few caveats, I wish that I were dead set on this and that I had enough to cover the whole cost, but I'm not and I don't. If things look promising, I may still donate even in the event that I don't choose to participate. My sympathies generally lie with the kind of lainons who would willingly choose such a lifestyle as this, so providing for a kind of haven for you would suit me more than the usual charitable contribution. Of course, I can picture it being more of a hellhole than a haven after all is said and done. Sentiments aside, there's my status report.

>>3283 >That's why I also posted a link that explains all alternative building methods such as dirt bag homes, earthships, haybail homes, dome homes etc. These tend to cost around ~$5000 counting things like utilities and what not, you can't build a normal house for $5,000. >There are even potentially cheaper ways but it requires giving up on the idea of rural land and aquiring homes or appartments in an urban or suburban area. To me this is less upfront cost for more long term cost in not being able to grow food. It would make sense that their would be houses available for less that ~5000 dollars a person but I wonder how this would compare building a collective house using the techniques mentioned, especially considering that most of the cost comes from utilities.

>>2977 >>2973 You guys are savages

>>2982 >Obviously, we don't want legitimate, severe autism. Why is that? Is there something about a person with a severe case of autism that would be against the good workings of the commune? Or, if you mean 'autism' in the colloquial pejorative sense, GTFO, nobody likes you. Use the term precisely, or don't use it at all. If you use a term imprecisely, you hinder it's ability to express it's meaning, the term becomes meaningless. Whereof we cannot speak, thereof we must stay silent.

>>3313 Perhaps "severe" was the wrong word. I mean to say that an autistic individual who lacks basic communicative ability would likely prove to be problematic and largely useless for our purposes, although I suppose that it would be a strange chain of events that would lead to such an individual even being involved in the first place.

>>3213 Meeting a dying town halfway might be the easiest way to self sufficiency. Plus, imagine the skills that a local of such an area could be able to teach lainons.

Jesus Christ we need to find some more lainons to get in on this or this idea is gonna die right off like it's on track to.

>>3333 Once trumps lose the 2020 election people will get desperate and we might get more people willing to create this commune

>>3334 the democratic party is a circus and the republican party is a circus who doesn't realize they're in a circus

>>3334 Wait did you say lose? Who's gonna beat him? And why would it make people desperate if he lost? He's done nothing but bad lol

>>3334 More people here would celebrate that than get desperate.

>>3338 We should get lainchan a leftist political board.

The American government is a stable plutocracy full of blatant incompetents and charlatans, the chances of anything which fundamentally changes the duopoly of slavery and consumption on the time of its citizens is exceptionally unlikely. I doubt any probable act of politics would change the prospect of communes because of this. If this project was ever to succeed it would be by the tenacity of a few select members, not praying to political RNG.

>>3339 Nah just one for authoritarians of all stripes including Trumpettes.

>>3339 >>3342 The last time we tried a political board, things went very poorly. However, please stay on topic. If you would like to discuss the pros/cons of a new board and how you'd like to see it ran, please take it to /q/.

R.I.P. Lain Commune

>>3375 Probably. It tried to do too much too quickly imo.

>>2953 While I much prefer arable farming land, I fear the logistics of maintaining that sort of commune (unless we go full primmie) will be harder than procuring good land for a reasonable price; let alone land that is arable. Perhaps doing a full exit will be too hard, so finding something urban and remote enough might be the best choice in the middle. Just in case some people have to wagec*ck, or the commune turns into Reiko cult house. I'd look into squatting rights in this case.

>>3381 I agree, everyone rushed to discussing the details of the project rather than how we would start it in the first place. How about, as a 'proof of concept' we find out if any lains live near each other and try set up a 'lain house' of sorts. If that is successful we can expand from there.

>>3382 >>3383 As the OP, I'll say that it seems that the old plan has collapsed entirely, so do whatever you want. I don't think I'll be participating heavily from here, given that I feel the response I received was rather underwhelming for the effort I put in. The first step to attaining anything is "want it." It looks like we don't.

>>3384 don't feel too discouraged, I saw an IRC server mentioned in the first thread, is it still up? I feel as if image boards aren't the most productive places to discuss plans like this.

>>3391 It's still up, but I went there on multiple occassions to offer my knowledge of land/farming/prepping/etc only to realize no one is there or active. Still not opposed to giving out advice, seeing as a lot of the ideas in the thread pertain to things I've already studied or done myself already.

>>3394 Would a discord server promote more project discussion? I understand that it has privacy issues but I feel it would make it easier to get people interested in the planning stages.

>>3397 Why not make a facebook group as well?

>>3398 false equivalency

>>3037 Anybody can draw. Sure, there's a lot of specific skills to learn, but that's all icing on top. Betty Edwards' "Drawing On The Right Side Of The Brain" proved that with a little work, there's a switch you can flip in everybody's head that'll let them draw anything they can see.

>>3142 Where are these beautiful visions from?

How about setting up in Slab City? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31vG4vXD6Ks It makes sense to piggyback on an established site, and I'm sure they wouldn't mind having a bunch of tech-savvy solarpunks running a makerspace.

I don't want to sound rude but in my experience imageboard users tend to be really awkward types to interact with (casual user myself since c. 2009 or so here) so I have hesitation at the idea of actually living with any of them/you. >>2979 >This is just going to end up being a sweaty autist den, just join a local commune with more normal people Or this to put it more bluntly. I can't stand being around so-called autists in meatspace. It's has just felt impossible to truly be loose around them and as someone who has experience in similar self-sufficient living settings, I feel as if such people would not tolerate the kinds of conditions that exist in such circumstances.

I check up on the lains every once and a while and while I certainly wouldn't want to live with you nerds, it seems a bit silly checking up on this thread for years and it never progressing beyond some nebulous planning state. What I think would really help push things along is this: just do it! It doesn't have to be fancy or permanent, pack whatever soykaf you have on hand and meet up on some BLM land/Random anons house/whatever. See if you actually would want to live in such a setting because I can assure you, communal living isn't for everyone. If things go well and some people want to continue on, great! Now you have a small group of motivated, interested people that have at least some drive and experience, having attended such a congregation of curious individuals.

>>3467 Why are you telling us about your reservations with a dead project? It seems we're incapable of making anything happen.

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but open source ecology would be the ideal way to build the commune using open source tools. They also have workshops every year and so, currently it is pretty much one guy living of his farm in middle of nowhere, but he want to grow the movement. I don't see why lain commune wouldn't be a big super node in this project. https://www.opensourceecology.org/

>>3537 Encouraging people to work towards something that actually has a chance in Hell rather than something like this is not crapping on them or bullying them or anything else. This was never going to be a reality, anyone should be able to see that.

>>3539 I think they're aiming extremely high and launching themselves right into the extreme self-sustaining hermit lifestyle with almost no prior knowledge or experience whatsoever. That design is doomed to fail. The obvious way to start would be to choose a city to move, look for a place to rent and then some lainons should move together. If things go right them a second group of lainons move to another place close to the first group and so on until you reach a decided number. Then, on the second step, you move to the outskirts/countryside, but still very close to the city (and thus still depending on it) and form the first commune. These two steps can easily take a couple years. And maybe if someday you're ready you can move to your autonomous enclave or whatever is your final goal. That would be the third step. Personally, I find the second step the comfiest of all, giving you the chance to slowly detach from the mundane and still keeping a hold in the regular world, in other words, the best position to Close the world and Open the nExt . I'm sorry if someone already posted something similar to this.

>>3540 No. The first step is to organize a meetup like a single weekend retreat and see if you can all stand to be in the same room as one another. I already know I wouldn't be welcome there based on what's been posted above.

>>3541 That's a good idea.

>>3542 Try reading the suggested alternatives rather than sperging out. Buying land with a bunch of strangers from different countries who wouldn't even recognize each other if they passed on the street? People we know have incompatible politics and lifestyles already? Get real. The critics in this thread are not the ones that are detrimental to meeting up and getting things done. It's YOUR attitude that is detrimental here. For years now you've been strategizing online and no one has taken a single physical step towards this. At some point recognize that you have to stop daydreaming and take action. This thread and the dozen preceding it are just collective daydreams that go nowhere.

btw here's a bunch of stuff on communes and co-ops: http://library.uniteddiversity.coop Some of it is about the legal aspects, decision making, business plans, examples of communes and co-ops, and a bunch of other topics like food and energy sources.

Good thread.

as far as US states, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Idaho & Utah (there's even good tech-work in slc!) are very empty, cold & desolate in parts. a lot of the water is poisoned with runoff from oil & gas development. I'd deff drive out there & live with you all tho, even if you're a little mixed-up or crazy. thanks OP, good thread.

i've been in and out of urban communes in a latin american megacity for the past few years. we invade abandoned buildings and take them over. usually we have to barricade all of the entrances for at least a week, because the police will try to come in and make us leave. i've been in places with more than 10 floors and over a hundred people, down to smaller places with just a handful. I've also done some semi-rural stuff on the outskirts of town. living collectively is pretty hectic. unlike north america down here there is less rigid structure and a lot of what happens takes place in an endless stream of ceremonious social interactions that have an eery kind of formality to them. i would suggest staying flexible about your methods. you have no idea what you're getting into until you've been living in it for a while. don't overthink it expecting that 'mission and rules' is going to make much of a difference. you should probably change your approach. trying to idealize way before then put your ideals into practice is not the best approach. keep it real. realize that you're in the ideation phase and stick idea-ating about things that are worth idea-ating about. for example, for my next jump, i'll be going quite far out of the city. activities and income streams are what we are thinking about, but i've already lived with the other people at other communes for reasonable stretches of time. we all come from a similar background ( and share a commune culture. culture is where you should expect to run into issues, and will have no idea how it will play out until you do it. when i say culture i dont mean he eats spagetti becauase he's from jersey and she likes velveta because she's from east texas.

>>2983 bruh, this entire website is an obscure chinese cartoon imageboard, why are you here

>>2953 >Wiki: commune.lain.ovh Link doesn't work for me, did I fuarrrk up somehow?

Reminder not to move to a red state and soykaf it up by voting against good gun laws. have a nice day!

>>3758 Where did this thought even come from?

>>2953 Im thinking arable rural, but Im just worried it will end up like every other leftist attempt at a commune. There was a time where a bunch of leftists were given a home at the same farm but almost every single one of them ended up leaving because they hated getting up at 6am and sleeping at 10pm every day, working nearly all of it. And we already know what happened to CHAZ.

>>4784 citations needed, and "pulled it out of my ass" doen't count.

are you guys done? When i will be able to live around you guys? (it would be bery comfy)

semi-urban communes are more gooder IMO. Just get a big old house in some low-density city, fix it up, and get internet. Grow mushrooms in the backyard to supplement conventional food sources. No matter where we end up, it will be important to maintain good relationships with neighbors. Looking at the mission and rules: I don't like use of the word "productivity" all over the place. It is a cancerous word that is used too often. Producing is not the goal of life, instead self-actualization would be a better goal. An important point: what is the driving goal of this commune? Are we just gonna be a bunch of flatmates or something more? What should unify lains? Is this commune drug-friendly or drug-unfriendly? Are we academic-focused? Do we do crimes together? Do we have a shared project or worldview? If lains do not have a reason to be living together in this way that overpowers individual friction, the commune is doomed to failure. Personally I have always wanted to be part of a commune specifically focused on scientific investigation. I imagine lains collaborating on research projects and participating in the scientific community. To that end I think somewhere near a major research university would be ideal. I think it's also important to vet participants and get to know each other very well. I know we all want to be anonymous but it's just a necessity, you can't trust people you don't know. Perhaps we should set aside a time for a meet-and-greet on mumble. I have about $4k to my name and I'm planning on grad school, but if that doesn't pan out I'm willing to move wherever and to put in significant work to this project.

>>6104 The most compelling reason to form a laincommune is as an anti-cyberpunk dystopia resistance movement, where we resist the megacorps and mass surveillance by growing our own food, making our own DIY crafts, writing and discussing politics freely, hacking software and spreading our message and way of life to anyone who is interested.

>>3466 >no internet we can setup some kind of high range solar powered network

>>6104 >commune drug-friendly or drug-unfriendly that really could go both ways A)cool dudes smoking weed and doing other experimental drugs B)the commune gets filled with degenerate junkies

So after four(?) years of deliberating on the internet, surely some headway has been made by now. Any updates on actual work you've done in securing a location? I won't be welcome there but I applaud your efforts anyway.

>>6311 They way Lain's demographic has changed since the new owner took over, it'd end up as some kind of MAGA militia compound.

>>6317 Someone needs to take it back.

>>6318 Or split off and start a new Lain OH WAIT

>>6317 Even if that's the case I'd still like to see a Lain themed commune. Also >MAGA not all of us are burgers.

>>6325 >>6317 >MAGA militia compound s/MAGA/NatSoc/

>>6326 >s/MAGA/NatSoc/ I'm sorry, I don't speak PARROT. What are you trying to say, greentext alien?

What is this? Is it real? Is it capitalist or socialist? If it's socialist, can I setup a capitalist shop anyway? How free is it? What would be the internet situation? Using the same internet as a bunch of lainanons doesn't seem that secure.

>>6329 >Is it real? No it isn't. Find some people in your own town or country or who are willing to move at least, people you have common values and goals with, and start your own place. Nothing is going to come of this and no one who is not a silly person ever thought otherwise.

>>6327 Oh, I assume everyone here knows sed. I was merely correcting "MAGA" to "NatSoc", friend.

>>6335 everybody knows, he newfren

what is the chance of some brazillian lain lurk around here? I'm looking for communes here but this concept is not that well known... The only things that I found was about Ecovilas

>>6343 I've been here since Kalyx got caught pulling on his big brown peen.

>>6343 >>6335 And all my programming knowledge comes from TYPING IN BASIC FROM A MAGAZINE ON MY DAD'S AMSTRAD and LOGO ON A COMMODORE 64 IN PRIMARY SCHOOL so STFU.

>>6317 A bunch of authoritarians founding their anarchist farm. Sounds legit.

>>6324 I meant the boards need to get controlled better before it all becomes degraded to where there isn't even a point of posting anymore.

Great things happen when great minds collaborate in one place. A suitable place requires >water source someone good at masonry can make a mini deep well drilling rig >for toilets and baths ^ >electricity and connectivity river turbine, solar panels, and batteries requires being near rapid water streams maybe a abandoned and forgotten bunkers with working ethernet/DSLAM and electricity >(optional) accessibility to proper health facilities and groceries a few minute drive or walk There's already existing RV communities that even are focused on actual electrosensitive people (people who feel pain where there's cell towers/radio equipment/power grid).

>>6395 There's barely any point NOW, people start a thread and never come back. We need to drum up more users, more content, consolidate boards, or just shoot this place in the head and put it out of its misery.

>>6411 The Moneyless Manifesto recommends manually digging a well, not drilling it, because it is far cheaper, low-tech and robust. It only takes 1-2 weeks with a shovel and bucket. Also, rainwater collection is very effective. If all else fails, get a jug and go to the river to collect water. Never use flush toliets, always save excrement for composting as humanure and urine as high nitrogen liquid fertilizer. This is the best way to grow food with organic permaculture and no external commercial inputs. Shower using a camping shower bag or just sponge bath.

Never join a commune unless it's a farming commune. Wooks will fuсk your girlfriend/wife/everything that moves and you'll eventually be convinced to drink poison kool-aid. There aren't exceptions Not trying to be a buzzkill, just a very important warning

>>6423 Oh and by farming I do not mean weird hippie farmers. They do not count

>>6422 Artesian well with hand-pumps require less maintenance and less susceptible to contamination although this only works if there's no freezing winter season.

>>6426 Artesian wells only work in areas where the hydraulic head is higher than ground level. Also the hand pump is a single point of failure that has doomed many African villages' drilled wells. But if contamination is problem, just filter the water before use with a slow sand filter + activated charcoal.

I recommend a modern version of the Iron Age Scottish stone roundhouse communities. I also suggest emphasis on permaculture, root vegetables, hunting, fishing, and civil defense training.

>>6432 Traditional stone buildings can last for centuries, they are far superior to modern cardboard McMansions that fall apart in 10 years.

>>6435 Stone is ridiculously resource intensive to get ahold of. Just use cob or adobe. Can last hundreds of years at least.

>>2953 1.) urbit 2.) free 3.) solid state 4.) not required

>>7148 >4.) not required Unless you want for someone to have an exclusive claim on the commune and being able to fuarrrk everyone else over if they feel like it, might well be necessary depending on local regulation and laws about housing property ownership. Can you please bother to think before posting?

Has anyone here considered a floating island? looks pretty decent might be hard work, but I though it looked cool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El6AU3riRI8

>>7152 Every micronation that attempted that went horrible. Either they failed to keep it running or they were taken out by waves and sunk.

>>7153 I require evidence, I don't think any micronation has actually tried. let alone sunk something.

>>7155 So few tried because they could never raise the massive amount of money it takes. As for sinking here you go the Republic of Rose Island https://www.grunge.com/316907/the-real-life-story-behind-netflixs-rose-island/ Even China and Dubai's manmade islands are sinking. If multi billion dollar projects dont succeed why the fuarrrk would a tiny imageboard? This is just LARP. Also saltwater corrodes metal so it would be useless for tech stuff and it would more easily contaminate chemical stuff so no chemistry. It would be pointless.

>>7152 >floating island you mean a boat?

>>2979 >>shut it down! This sort of thing makes me actually want to buy a fedora to spite people that try to dictate behavior through shame tactics. Go be a sheep then.

>>2954 automation typically drives a smaller employee base into more highly skilled and technical jobs.

>>2983 Then why join the discussion with those that do?

>>3763 If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand.

>>6111 I can't imagine a better way to paint targets on the backs of your flatmates than that. Little could better guarantee the destruction of a community by the corporatocracy than hacking and proselytizing resistance to it.

>>6411 this to be honest. I'm looking at an RV park in the PNW now. Securing financing is a hurdle. The seller is a bit of a curmudgeon, which makes things easier, since I am too.

>>6422 Having hand dug a well in the past, so enjoy your pit trap and incessant input of rotting corpses of small, woodland creatures. Reasonably modern comforts like actual baths aren't out of reach for 21st Century autists. You can take sponge baths living in a car. You don't need a commune for that.

>>6424 If you're talking about a farming commune there are no other kinds, Lainon.

>>6428 Don't not filter your water, no matter what. One dead mouse can kill everyone in the house.

>>7153 Or Thailand mobilized the military to take out their single family home in international waters. Also, people underestimate the difficulty of implementing basic household necessities designed to function on land without land. Every single system providing services to households is designed for use on land, and all of them are dysfunctional on water.

>>7157 Last I heard, Sealand is still ongoing.

>>6317 That's every imageboard that got invaded by 'contrarian' teen normalsheep.

>>6311 >>3724 >>3467 >>3343 >>3339 >>3334 >>3336 >>2953 >>3333 >>go away spammer I'll post this as a text instead then. Imageboards being ran by idiots and or assholes is another reason we can't have nice things.

>>7187 t. edgy contrarian

>>7189 You are supposed to be, that was the point. Right vs left is sheeple as hell but the cheap carbon copies of older normal people ran on over thinking they were original about it and it's awful.

>>6393 >authoritarians founding anarchy I really wish people would understand what anarchy actually meant.

>>2953 Not to be the bearer of bad news but all planned communes are destined to fail (if they even get off the ground). Towns form through natural processes like how economics works, you can't just arbitrarily decide that you want a commune and it will happen successfully. Not to mention there's no apparent reason for this supposed commune to exist beyond "it would be cool..." What's the founding principle? What reason should this town exist for at all?

>>6417 this looks like it deserves a /q/ thread

>>6417 I think most of the new problems can be traced to the fact that many of the new posters are from high-pace boards like four chan and red it which makes it hard for them to adapt. Whatever sushichan is doing seems to be workihng really well though, maybe we should start a thread t odiscuss this. Ideally we don't open the flood gates to soykafty posters who see this place as another red it or four chan to abuse with their poor quality posting styles. Good content and a good reason to stay will bring in those who are interested, but honestly this slow paced posting style is a lot more conducive to a simple and clean posting culture.

>>7157 >larp Please learn how to use the English language properly. Anyway, there's not real technical reason a man-made island would be different than a natural one. They just need to alter their strategy. If magma is fairly solid then you need a more solid base. Did they use concrete and or asphalt as their base? It could have been some simple mistake. With 'poor' people that don't want to dump a mountain of asphalt on something while trying to get it to dry (make a giant wall around it then pump the water out?) one could just make platforms with giant pillars underneath and put dirt on top of that. If high up enough then it won't get destroyed by the waves. Not an island though I guess. >>7158 No he obviously meant a stone flying through the air. >what is size Jackass.

>>7243 *a *if magma upon being cooled after being lava rather is like rock, etc

>>7176 If you're too afraid to do as you think is right then they've already won.

>>3024 If the credit taker went to a company under the pretense that they did all of this work they'd more than likely be quickly found out and fired. Most people would probably call this an agency and sale their services that way. Kinda like this company https://powercode.co.uk/our-team The challenge for this is finding clients because you'd need someone who is loyal to the commune, has no interest in abusing his position and sleazy enough to do sales. Best of luck with that

>>6435 >>7147 I'd make a bunch of bricks (or fake stones) myself with clay and a kiln that's a hole in the ground. Ceramics last a long time as stone would, what's the difference really? You could design them to hook together easier too, the shapes. Ceramics can't take a sudden shock so well but they take a lot of pressure and also don't rot. Low fire does harbor bacteria and even leak but if it were thick like a brick would it matter really if you painted it? Then again with all the wood it'd take and all the days it'd take if you didn't have a bunch of people doing the kilns simultaneously I"d probably end up in a mud-hutt village, but oh well. Thatch roofs are jrpg tier comfy anyway. Also yurts are an option. Pressed cloth, felt, wood ash seals it over time as you cook thing in them and they have a chimney type top part, wooden skeleton and you can move them like a tent. But at the very least one could make terracotta shingles for the roofs even if it were mud and put the house on a mound of dirt to avoid too much water hitting it and repair them over time, the huts. Happy medium. Not enough cloth for a yurt, not enough wood to burn nor help as it's going to take too many bricks/structures to make a really nice place, do the primitive thing and make a wood structure and put mud on it and rather than a soykafty thatch roof use the shingles. Then again they might not be held up by the wooden skeleton/scaffolding/whatever so well... >I like collecting these images of village tier housing

If only you could magically fire the entire structure after having made it with microwaves or something then it could just stay as it is as a ceramic object, these things made of mud or clay.

>>2992 The triple parentheses people will be smart enough to not join a commune lmao

can you guys take in me and my wife and six kids? we stockpiled food

>>7287 Actually when they see someone that is a true maverick making their own culture they have to attack them to keep them from throwing off world the world-commerce status quo. That's the real reason communist nations are overthrown when they show up in the middle of nowhere.

>>7285 Cob doesnt need to be fired like similar adobe bricks and can last hundreds of years. I am unsure but that picture appears to be compacted dirt building which is very labour intensive not ver efficient id say

>>7297 >>Cob (material), a building material for making walls using compacted clay, sand and straw >source: wikipedia >>The material has a long life-span even in rainy and/or humid climates, provided a tall foundation and large roof overhang are present. Why would this be any different from a normal mud-hut? I'd put a mud-hut on top of a hill with a well maintained roof myself, though I guess mixing grass into it works better basically? Is the mixing of materials somehow more sturdy? A tensile strength thing?

>>7302 (me) Probably just the stone foundation helping it out not letting shifts crack the walls as quickly. Cob as in cobblestone I guess. It's gotta be the foundation that matters so much.

>>7288 Sure, your first daughter will have to join my harem and half of your food will be her dowry. t. chieftain of Lain tribe >>7302 Cob is a Britain-specific term for vulgar description of any "mud hut" building. Clay is put in as thick layer of plaster over wattles which act as framework and lath. There is also rammed earth, or rammed clay, which is a more labor-intensive technique, but produces almost concrete-like structure, and used to be employed for tall buildings and walls in desert castles.

>>7302 Yes straw or similar ads tensile strength. I correct what i said before adobe isn't usually fired traditionally but it does get fired more modern times. So cob and adobe are very similar just different building techniques. Easiest is earthbags just requires some money investment to obtain materials. https://naturalbuildingcollective.wordpress.com/2014/03/09/using-natural-materials-a-comparison/

>>7296 lol sure, never been tried etc commies are such a joke

>>7323 >>I have my guns to protect my rights >meanwhile all the pigs are right wingers also Everyone is a joke, fool.

What's your technology tree? Like from primitive 3D printer to portable base.

>>2953 Why don't you do what nudists do and have a camp that people can visit voluntarily?

>>7331 Because that's asking for invasion and tyranny and theft and just sabotage in general. Look at what happened to Amsterdam in contrast to Uruguay. One allows marijuana to be smoked by visitors and then the place burns to the ground nearly, the other is the nicest (South) American nation and did not allow people that were not citizens there to smoke it. If you are not a citizen you should not visit as you'd not be there to contribute, lest you turn it into a fake sort of place like modern day Italy and such, tourist funded theme-park nations such places are. Did you want to be a spectacle and judged as harshly as the Pope?

>>3073 >Does anyone here lives in a latin american? Yup, me. >I live in cali (colombia) and I've never meet anyone in my whole life who cares about privacy i do. what about you? you just revealed on which city you live :/

>>7332 what are the benefits of citizenship? what does this "country" have to offer? the way you're phrasing it makes it sound like this is a johnestown thing.

Non- American here, but i would like to ask, how would you guys manage trash disposal in the middle of nowhere? i ask this considering the end result to be in a remote place, which i think is the coolest option. Also considering some people may want to have a permanent residence in the commune... there should be some way, maybe an external service, that collects trash, idk, monthly? Also, something that i didn't saw anyone mention among the bare minimum: what about a shrine to Lain?

>>7342 Composting. Metal, plastic and glass can be melted to be reused. Styrofoam apparently can be eaten by mealworms. Mushrooms can decompose things like oils if they cant be filtered and reused.

>>7343 I don't think a small Commune just strarting will have Metal, Plastic and Glass melters as priorities. And i don't think fungi can decompose matter at the rate a group of humans generate it

>>7342 Throwing it in your yard. Hope you don't mind. >but that's not a solution! It's a recursive solution.

>>7345 >It's a recursive solution break; just no.

>>7342 You're not supposed to have 'trash' in ancient civilizations. You're supposed to have composts, fires for broken wooden stuff, make ripped cloths into papers or felt cloth stuff, extracted teeth into necklaces, etc.

>>7344 >melters To smelt metal you need only a forge from a historical perspective. To have that you need dirt and wood to burn really more so than anything else. That and some stone bowl to pour the stuff as pottery probably would crack too easy. >plastic Should not even need this at all to begin with. That's like asking where do you get petrol? Fossils are not needed in ancient times. It's a landlord making infinite profits without producing anything, fossil fuel stuff is, and plastic is made from it. Baby oil too, mineral oil rather. Lots of others stuff, like black rubber get oil in it and I suspect that is why one can't stop a tire fire. Glass is not inherently needed as older ceramic pottery is better but it's not like they can't melt sand with real nice ovens. If you take care of say a pot it never breaks anyway. Wood you burn once it's broken and etc as previously stated in my above post, sorry to post twice in a row: >>7347 There's only 3 issues: nice climate, nice dirt, lots of wood. Not enough wood? Bad dirt? Bad climate? Ur fuarrrked. You need lots of wood and fertile soil and an area that would allow a versatile crop with it's climate. Fungal infections, viruses, bacterial infections, lots of things destroy crops so without modern trickery the climate might destroy the food supply even if the dirt is black and it's not too cold nor hot and you have lots of trees to chop down. Then there's deforestation if you thrive too much in one area, you have to spread at that point, and so humans did, ergo you have to be conservative but not so much that you die, such a balance never was achieved in ancient times I suspect. When half of all babies die you need to be the type of animal that breeds as much as possible to have enough people to keep the village running, get too smart and it becomes a city that eats itself to death. But yes.... trash go brrrrr.

>>7344 It's not difficult to make forges, smelters and kilns.