Car without the botnet

Say I got a Tesla, then ripped the GSM antenna/GPS out of it. Then I would have a car that I could power with my own solar panels, that couldn't be tracked or given commands remotely. The only way it could connect to the internet is through my wi-fi network (and firewall). The car should still function; it would just think it's outside cell tower range. Has anyone done this? Is there info about this?

It may detect that the electronics aren't present. I recommend disconnecting the antenna and/or putting a faraday cage around the wireless chips.

>>1488 This, I have not looked into the car tech, but if it is like other tech, it probably has anti tamper circuits built into it, or programming to detect habsense of a call home feature, the worst I can think of is it stores remote data or something to authenticate driver keys ("for security" but that may jsut be tinforl. the best option is to non-invasively prevent the signal from transmitting, unless you can confirm that cutting out chips and antennas has no effect. It is also possible that the antenna is integrated into the vehicle mechanically making it impossible to remove (or has a dual purpose antenna)

Chances are the car will simply refuse to start. There's probably fuarrrkload of DRM to prevent you from doing exactly what you intend to do.

>>1487 I read that as "I buy a botnet because I don't want a botnet". Converting an old light vehicle to run on electricity would be a more cost effective solution than buying an expensive bleeding edge car then ripping out everything that makes it so expensive. If you start off with *knowing* there is no GPS/botnet in the vehicle you can't miss/forget/fail to take out a botnet chip that would invalidate everything you are trying to do. It's the only way to be sure.

>>1487 GPS only receives data (satellites broadcast their location & time in the clear, car uses those to triangulate its own location) - if you get rid of anything actually transmitting, keeping GPS in should be fine

>>1487 I thought about this a while ago because a sim card will be mandatory for all new cars where I love in the next few years, of course only to call an ambulance in case of an emergency and not so intelligence can track all cars at all times. Cutting the antenna should probably be possible, but I don't think you're covered by insurance when something actually happens, I'll probably have to drive old cars for the rest of my life to avoid this from 2020

>>1778 As you know, driving old cars gets harder as parts become obsolete. I guess it depends on where you live but where the delivery time for replacements is measured in weeks, the idea that you're in control of the tech you own comes into question.

>>1657 Converting an older car is more effective than buying a botnet car brand new, yet an older car will be much less user friendly, much less comfortable and generally much less technologically advanced than a brand new electric car. It's like this: Older car = cheaper, no botnet, cost effective Brand new = uses current tech, much more comfortable and reliable, service and support is always available. I like to see it as a trade, botnet is comfy, older car is fully yours to play with

>>1779 this, not to mention certain areas have emissions laws that will likely prevent the use of older cars in the future. some smart cars with basic features do not have all the botnet stuff in them, as do generation cars (early 2010s) which have batteries, but perhaps not remote software updates

>>1487 A lot of Tesla parts are actually open source and the it's running Ubuntu iirc. So you can do most things actually thru a terminal

>>2136 There's no way the actual motor controller box is running Ubuntu. That's way too crazy to be true. Maybe the entertainment system?

>>2142 several cars have been exploited because the entertainment system was part of the vehicle computer

>>1487 >has anyone done this >neurosuggesting anyone here can afford a tesla lel but outside of that, I don't think your plan would work out well due to the ridiculous power requirements for electric cars - given the size of the solar panel you would be able to install your car would be charging all the time

Has anyone made a Free Software replacement for Tesla's firmware yet? Also in a lot of states there are 'right to repair' laws the make it illegal to DRM car owners out of building or fixing their cars.

>>2145 yeah, they were chryslers iirc. i thought he was talking about the ecu running ubuntu. that would just be wacky. >>2169 why teslas? you're starting with the Apple of car companies when there is no precedent even for normal cars that *can* be practically repaired by an independent mechanic. start with subaru or honda. afaik hacking around with an ecu is almost always accomplished by replacing it with an aftermarket box (see: megasquirt) because factory firmware is always locked down to some degree (you can flash various timing/ignition/fuel tables in some cases but the rom itself isn't open source). i think the most hackable OEM ecu systems are made by japanese companies. subaru has a pretty active community for tuning the stock ecus with custom OBD-II cables. pretty sure you can do the same thing with acura (by extension honda?) and mitsubishi. for american or european cars, people usually just replace with an aftermarket ecu. i don't think anyone's out there making true open source ecu software/hardware, but its probably just an issue of demographics (tuner/mechanic types not being system programmers and vis versa). the CAN bus system itself is pretty simple, especially in older cars.

>>2127 >service and support is always available In this department tesla is like apple. You modify it "rip out all these instruments" there won't be any service.

>>2169 I saw a video of a guy running Ubuntu on his Tesla.

>>1487 least bot net car you can get will be an old school diesel as these don't even require any electrics at all to run, they are 100% mechanical (no spark plugs). EMP proof, not tracked, only way to cut engine is to starve fuel or air! combine this will a 4x4 off road machine and that also lifts restrictions on road type and sometimes you can go where there are no roads! Least restrictive vehicle possible!

>>2955 does it also not have a auto-starter? lamps/reflectors? then you can't use it when it's dark outside, and every time you start you have to start it with a curb. it's pretty restrictive in my opinion.

>>2955 Tires have had RFID for years now, I remember learning about it in 2009. https://www.moderntiredealer.com/article/311541/rfid-and-the-tire-industry

Cars are a menace to the environment and society anyway. Just move to a city with proper public transport, you'll get crowd anonymity and it's more cyberpunk anyway.

>>2958 Anonymous public transport is also pretty hard though.

>>2958 >crowd anonymity that's a funny word to use in 2019 when cameras watch every m^2 of the city and are installed in every public transport veichles and face-detection, people-counting, walking-recognition and other advanced algorithms on huge performance computers analyze the records while in contact with national databases and secret agencies.

>>2959 Depending on payment method, there will be some tracking, but it can't be as bad as driving a car with GPS and license plate. >>2960 Even still, most people will not care if you wear a facemask + shades + hat. Very common in the megacities, especially with all the pollution. And if they want to assassinate you in your Tesla or whatever, they just send a radio signal to cut the breaks or tell it to drive off a bridge. But in a bus or train, there's a higher risk since you are harder to track and there's more collateral.

>>2959 is it? Just buy a bus pass with cash >>2960 at least it's making it difficult instead of telling the government "HEY I DRIVE THIS CAR IT LOOKS LIKE THIS AND HAS THIS LICENSE PLATE THIS IS MY NAME AND SSN"

>>2961 >>2962 Where I live, you buy a card you put money on. You pay at machines, no cash option.

>>2961 >But in a bus or train, there's a higher risk since you are harder to track and there's more collateral. I see where you're coming from, and it's true that it's bigger, but it doesn't stop "them" from assasinate you. First: you are always in a crowd that means you have no means of self defense, 2 people with 2 knives stand behind and in front of you and you are dead. Secondly: it doesn't stop "them" from assasinating the whole veichle with all it's passangers. Think about all those civil aircrafts shot down by russia, ukraine, israel, china... etc and all those aircrafts reported "missing" or having a "very sad accident", while something or somebody important traveled on them( politicians, scientists, businessman going to very important events that could make profit fall for "somebody", or secret weapon cargo on the civil airline) >Even still, most people will not care if you wear a facemask + shades + hat. Very common in the megacities, especially with all the pollution. It's true. Where are the biggest and most of the megacities? Yes, china. And what did china develop? AI recognizing you by the way you walk. Are we going to wear exoskeletons that randomize our walking patterns?

the real answer to this thread is smash all your electronics, buy a 1985 land rover defender 90 with cash and drive a hundred miles into clearwater national forest and never come out

>>2956 Can bump start, no need for starter, thats for pussy's - pic attached has hand crank + rear PTO drive for equipment like generators, drills, spreaders, pumps etc. You will only blow bulbs with emp not stop the lighting circuit working - again starter is very very unlikely to be taken out with an EMP. Most cars can take a direct lightning hit without much more than a bit off computer mess up - even a modern merc/ford/vw/etc etc will probably start after a lightning strike. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve6XGKZxYxA skip to 3:40 >>2957 >Tires have had RFID Not gonna stop one of pic attached driving in any way, won't have transponders in any part, tires included.... off road tire like these for such vehicle will normally not have that tech.

>>1657 Based on what I've seen of the Tesla (I took a test drive in one, with no intention of buying, for a date with my lady) there's a lot of work that needs to be done to convert a combustion-car to run on electricity. A tesla car has no exhaust, combustion-engine. The lubrication system is completely closed because there is no combustion introducing impurities into the oil. I think that a hybrid car could be easier to convert, because it is already has the components required to rotate the wheels without gas.

>>1657 Why not just go hydrogen, that stuff is easy to make if you have electricity. >>2976 where would you put the massive battery pack though.

>>2976 You do realize that in many cases you can just pull the gas engine and insert electric motor and as long as you have the proper coupling to attach it to the transmission that it will drive the wheels. Or just omit the transmission since electric motors don't have the same rpm restrictions at their crankshaft driven cylinder gas burning cousins.But it would use less electricity with a transmission since it takes more power to turn the motor at higher speeds such as highway. That is why full ev don't do so well on highways when you are doing constant high speeds and aren't getting much out of your regenerative brakes. You can also turn an ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) into a hybrid in a number of ways. You can attach the electric motor between the gas engine and transmission with the crankshaft passing through it, remove the drivetrain to the rear if 4wd or maybe awd, but idk about awd since even the tire people say that they are finicky if you don't do them all at once. But remove the drive train and make the rear tires electric while the front gas, or you can even put the motors in the hubs and keep the engine gas. IDK where you got the idea that conventional gas cars don't have the components required to rotate the wheels. All you really need is to either swap or engine for an electric motor or insert the electric motor inline with the engine. Also need an inverter and battery. Also the oil thing you said. Sure the electric motors are oiled and even if they are self contained like you stated so isn't the oil in a gas engine. It doesn't leave the engine until you drain it. It isn't shared with the tranny or other moving components. It is self contained in the engine, it's pumped from the oil pan, which is a part of the engine and houses the oil pump, to the head and lfiters and then back down the engine through various ports in the block that are for both oil and coolant. These ports are of course separate and if you see white in your oil you have a gasket leak. So anyway even if the electric motors oil is self contained it doesn't mean that it can't be put in a conventional car. It would just be contained within the electric motor. Your transmission won't loose oil because it has it's own transmission fluid. Finally if you are still reading this there are two types of hybrids. Serial and parallel. Serial is where the gas motor is mainly just a generator and not providing power to the wheels at all. The other parallel shares the drivetrain with the electric motor and the hp and torque from the gas motor is combined with the electric motor to reduce both the gas need of the engine and electric draw of the motor.

>>2960 One could also just ride a decent bicycle with a full face helmet and goggles/shades. Anonymity, transport independence, no gas, no registration no bullshit. No way for anyone to track you.

why not buy an old carbd+dizzy soykafbox theres no way for one to connect to the internet or anything else in the first place

there are still your license plates and unique tags in tires / car parts that can be read by billboards & passive/active scanning stations to let USG know where you are friend. Stay safe.

>>1487 >that couldn't be tracked or given commands remotely >The only way it could connect to the internet is through my wi-fi network (and firewall) If it can still connect to wifi, then it can still be tracked (unless you can set it to randomize its MAC address and take other measures) and can still have remote exploits launched against it. Also, you should really consider adding ALPRs to your threat model when it comes to tracking, as they're getting so cheap it's no longer just some police departments and towing companies using them. Even companies like McDonalds are considering using them in their drive throughs for the purpose of personalizing the menus that they show people, some HOAs and apartment complexes are putting up ALPRs so they know when someone who doesn't live there is in the area, and malls are using them to track shoplifters. My real recommendation would be to buy a car that comes without a cellular/wifi connection or a motorcycle (you can still buy new ones with no ECU if you want) for longer range travel and a folding bike/scooter/skateboard that you can carry in your vehicle for short range travel. Some articles on how ALPRs becoming more common: https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-license-plate-recognition-drive-through-restaurant-20190711-story.html https://slate.com/technology/2019/07/automatic-license-plate-readers-hoa-police-openalpr.html

>say i got a tesla well i found yer problem right there

How many solar car threads are needed to be in the catalog?

>I got a Tesla wealthƒags pls go

Bicycle is the most anonymous way of moving from A to B these days. Full-face balaclavas, masks, goggles are a common sight on bicycle riders, no road tolls, no tickets, no license plates, no gait recognition algorithms yet Please select all images with the following item: bicycle.

>>4169 I see people get pulled over by police on bicycle for no reason constantly where I live in the USA. Myself included to be told either "off the sidewalk" or "light on bicycle" or any other excuse. For poor people the pigs have "stop and search" policies. I saw a guy with a book-bag walking down the road in broad daylight once that got pulled over. So no. Having a fake license plate would be best and resorting to shooting the pig and pealing out. It'd be the only way to be not bothered.

It won't start for sure, it's no like intended to annoy you, but to test integrity of the hardware for safety reasons. Besides, you cant power your car with solar panels, at least no yet. tl;dr too much of a trouble

>>4170 >shoot the pig >to not be bothered Thanks for the laugh, I really needed it.

>>4186 >neurosuggesting it was meant to be funny

>>4190 This too is funny. You're the next big comedian.

>>4191 >>lol a police state being resisted LOL The USA's ancestors would be ashamed.

>>1487 You're not getting a botnet free Tesla Get yourself a car made before computers No botnet They're better looking too

>>2127 > an older car will be much less user friendly, much less comfortable and generally much less technologically advanced than a brand new electric car What exactly is "advanced" about newer cars? Maybe it brakes for you or keeps itself in the lane for you because you're too busy eating a cheeseburger to pay attention to the road. Maybe it parallel parks for you or something because you're too stupid to learn how to do it yourself? Congrats: you shouldn't be driving any car at all. Maybe it has a robotic arm that comes out and jerks you off while you're on autopilot. Seriously anyone give me one good reason why a car should ever have to connect to the internet. It is just absurd and unnecessary as a lightbulb or a toaster connecting to the internet. >>1657 Exactly. Don't buy a remotely controllable botnet car if you don't want a remotely controllable botnet car. There are still plenty of highly modern, very safe, 5-10 year old non-botnet cars. This is not even in the "need to know how a car works" zone of 15+ year old cars.

All cars are tracked due automatic license plate recognition. You are most likely also using a phone that reports it's own location to the cell towers every 30 seconds. Using a bike is really only botnet free transportation method.

>>4315 see >>4170

>>1487 Getting it to connect to your private vpn instead of Tesla servers would solve a lot of things i guess. Can you even do that? I have no idea.

>>1487 There are many computers in modern cars, more so in the Tesla. They are botnet nodes, and your car will unironically fail to boot up if you tamper with it. The good thing about the pandemic is you can ask sales people to remove such features before buying, they will be only happy to because sourcing those parts has become exponentially harder. Additionally requesting lo-fi models creates a demand that manufacturers will position to cater for.

>>4170 Just follow the rules. >for no reason >either "off the sidewalk" or "light on bicycle"

Gnu/car only true lads would know the reference

>>4169 Just ordered an electric assisted bike for that reason. Sick of all the red tape and risk of having a road licensed vehicle.

>>5306 unfortunatly anon is right. following the rules is how you avoid getting on the cops radar.

>>5306 Bicycles are still held to the same rules as cars in most places, scooters not so much, but the botnet scooters all around town are just accidents waiting to happen, and I almost got hit 3 times in a day last week walking home. I am surprised scooters don't have "antitheft" cameras that act as a botnet for recording the entire city, since everything with a sensor of any sort now exists to generate metadata for sale in the data market Musk runs linux on teslas, but he kept it proprietary in violation of the usage clause for linux.

>>5307 The dream

20 year old town car has no malware.

>>5346 >Musk runs linux on teslas, but he kept it proprietary in violation of the usage clause for linux. So why has he not been to court over it? Or has he?

>>5346 >Musk runs linux on teslas, but he kept it proprietary in violation of the usage clause for linux. Incorrect. Tesla has stuck to the letter of the law in releasing their sources. https://github.com/teslamotors

>>5367 This is only the case if you are modifying the Linux kernel itself and releasing binaries. Linus specifically didn't want GPL3 for this kind of reason

Build an OP Power Wheels, 100% botnet and government control free.

>>5368 >letter of the law Sort of. After at least five years in violation, Tesla finally uploaded the code you linked in 2018. At the time it was not complete or fully complient, lacking build tools in particular. I don't know if and to what extent this has changed in the past two years.

If you want to disable cellular then simply remove the SIM card from your car. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/i-am-trying-to-replace-the-simcard-of-my-tesla-model-3.185988/ You can probably still be tracked by a determined party but you'll almost certainly be free of tesla botnet.

>>4314 >Seriously anyone give me one good reason why a car should ever have to connect to the internet. It is just absurd and unnecessary as a lightbulb or a toaster connecting to the internet. I mean maps, music, stuff like that. Sure you don't need it but it's pretty nice to have, I still remember the first time I listened to internet radio in a car, it was glorious. The joy of random music in the car, getting stoked when a good song comes on. Except you never had to listen to commercials or crap.

>I mean maps, music, stuff like that. this is all stuff that could be done with either home WIFI (to install new maps) or stream from a separate device, or even at worst, give the car airplane made so you don't need it on ALL the time. Satellite radio even has ads for the channels and satellite radio nowadays. I Could stream lain radio through an aux cord and never have any issues. Maps don't need internet, just a timing signal from GPS satellites for location data... Laptops can even receive GPS data without internet with the right antennae.

me>I mean maps, music, stuff like that. >>5392 >this is all stuff that could be done with... Well you're correct actually. A cheap DIN form factor android can hold more than you'll probably ever use. It actually sounds like a fun project. You could really go all out if you wanted. Install an android front end. It seem like some of them can play video games so get a remote with a little keyboard and controllers There's lots of interesting back-end options like pi's, nano-itx, NUCs. You can run a cable through to the trunk and hook them together. I'm sure that something interesting could be done if it was connected to the car's bus and the odbc system, also wonder what might be interesting to give it some control over. It could connect to your phone's wifi hotspot automatically if you wanted soykaf from the internet. You could maybe give them a battery backup that could double as a line conditioner for all the awful car electricity and put everything in sleep mode somehow when the car is turned off.