homebrewing

i got into homebrewing a few years ago making various beers and wines and started getting pretty good at it. i eventually lost interest, mostly due to the economics of it not really being worthwhile, barley malt being expensive to buy and ship and not having any local homebrew shops in my area to buy supplies from. lately i've been reading about koji mold, the stuff that japanese use to make sake and i've been thinking of trying some experiments with that. basically you inoculate some hydrated sterilized grain with koji starter and put it in a warm humid place to colonize and after a few days it gets covered in mycelium and is full of enzymes that break down the starches into fermentable sugars. i've grown mushrooms before so i'm already familiar with the process of growing fungi and have a vivarium i built for that purpose, all i would need is some grain and a packet of koji starter which costs $15 on amazon. i'm intrigued by this idea because in the past i've thought about buying a cheap 50 lb sack of whole grain barley and malting it myself to brew with, but i learned that malting your own grain is kind of a massive pain in the ass. you have to alternately soak the grain in a tub of fresh water for 12 hours, then leave it in open air for 12 hours until it starts to sprout, then you have to spread it all out on a big flat surface and keep turning it and aerating it for like a week until the rootlets grow out, then you have to kiln dry it, then sift it on the screen to remove the rootlets, etc. the koji method would be a lot faster and simpler, obviously the end product would taste different from traditional beer, but from what little information i've been able to find of people making beer with koji barley i've heard some good things. koji enzymes produce more glucose and less maltose than malt enzymes which imparts more crisp fruity flavors in the finished brew, and people say there's a hint of umami flavor, as one might expect. aside from barley i could also experiment with koji on other grains like wheat, corn, rye, etc. what do you think of this idea? has anyone here ever used koji for anything?

>>13763 it's worth mentioning that a lot of those "koji" yeast starters are "koji style" and don't have actual koji spores in them- just enzymes that help break down starches for yeast. Real koji pretty much has to be used entirely seperately from yeast to prevent fermentation from producing methanol because of exposure to cellulose like particles in the unbroken down wort. If you do use real koji it's important to use koji- and then after max enzymatic action to use the yeast.

Thats very interesting. I've done some brewing but do not have issue accessing malted grain. My closest experience with making sake is using old sake equipment for beer haha. Another thing worth possibly investigating for you would be malting your own grain, if you can access decent whole non malt barley (you could also malt non barley grains, good barley malt iirc has better conversion power than some other grains but they all can work). Ive only done tiny batches myself just to prove I could. Can also just buy enzymes, some homebrew stores have them.

>>13766 the ones i saw on amazon in the pink and purple packets said they are aspergillus oryzae spores so i think those are the real thing. i did learn there is a lot of confusion about koji in the west, a while back i heard about a chinese product called "angel yeast" and i was under the impression that it was a combination of koji spores and distiller's yeast because of retards on reddit saying that, but it's actually a completely different fungus called rhizopus oryzea that produces a lot of lactic acid and other foul-tasting byproducts that make it useless for anything but distilling. from what i've read the traditional method of making sake is to throw the koji-colonized rice directly in the fermenter with water and yeast and let it simultaneously convert the starches and ferment the sugars, but i probably wouldn't do that if i were trying to make beer with koji barley because it needs to be hopped anyway. i think after colonizing the barley i would just do the traditional 1 hour mash followed by 1 hour boil with hops that you would do with malted barley, only mashing at a slightly lower temperature since the fungal enzymes from the koji are not as heat tolerant as the enzymes from malt. >Can also just buy enzymes, some homebrew stores have them. i looked into that too but it seems like you would need a whole variety of several different enzymes to get decent results if you were trying to brew beer with unmalted grain that has no enzymes of its own. i think people generally use commercial enzymes for distilling rather than fermented beverages because they just want as much alcohol as possible in the fermented mash and don't really care about what it tastes like before it goes through the still, but if you just used alpha-amylase and glucoamylase for beer with unmalted grain i imagine it would just convert everything to glucose and the end product would probably be very dry and not have much flavor. but i don't know, i might try that too and see what happens. the koji seems more interesting to me because i haven't seen many people doing it and it might be more convenient to have a fungal culture you only have to buy once and just keep propagating and cloning like you do with the yeast versus having to buy all the different enzymes you need.

I have made lots of Chinese rice wine which is very similar but uses different strains of mold. You use these "yeast balls" which you can get in asian supermarkets that contain the mold. You just cook rice, mix in a crushed yeast ball and shove it all in a jar for a couple weeks. It turns out really good, sweet with a floral taste.

I kind of want to brew but I keep thinking I either will wind up with something toxic or just waste time waiting for something that turns out tasting awful. I just want to do it as a cost saver also hobby to make something hard to get or unique. As for koji experiments, anyone tried using black glutinous rice?

>>13775 in my humble opinion the effort is not great and would be worth a try to try it once if you want to. Don't go all in on fancy equipment; you don't need to actually measure specific gravity, you don't need anything fancier than a big pot to ferment in or do anything. If you have a bottle/jar you can passibly seal, then you can get some carbonation. Everything you need to make beer is, apart from suitable malt grain, already in any well equipped kitchen. I can't taste beer very well apparently but as far as actual toxins go, I think you're pretty safe. AFAICT most of the weird scare stories about people poisoning themselves are because they're doing things that are obviously retarded like pouring methanol into something to get a higher abv. Dont do that lol. t. have made some beer.

>>13775 Brewing is almost idiot-proof. >something toxic Virtually impossible. >something that turns out tasting awful Depends on how picky you are. >just waste time waiting You can run a speed-brew under high temperatures to completion in under 14 days. We had a thread about this ages ago with some guide, guess it has finally died since I don't see it in the catalog... EZ Beginner Brew: - 1-4 pounds of grapes - 0.5 - 1 kg sugar (8 - 16% alcohol, I advise going for ~10% so ~0.65kg or ~1.4lb) - yeast (bread yeast works fine, but it will taste bready. buy wine yeast online for 1$ if you want) - empty gallon jug of milk - 1 unlubed unused condom OR 1 balloon OR 1 rubber band + plastic wrap 1. Put sugar into a pot with ~1/2 gallon of water. Boil it so the sugar dissolves. 2. (Optional) Put grapes into the sugarwater pot, boil em up for a bit. This bursts them and gets the yummy nutrients out. Some people will view this as evil. 3. Put the sugarwater + grapes into your gallon jug. You can use another jug cut up as a funnel if you suck at pouring. 4. Throw the yeast in. Just use the whole packe. 5. Put condom/balloon on top with 1 needle hole punctured in it. If using plastic wrap, put plastic wrap on top, seal with rubber band, then poke 1 needle hole in it. 6. Wait 24 hours. The sealing device should inflate. 7. Wait ~14 days at 75-85 degrees F. Majority of brewing is now done. If using wine yeast, most will have crashed. If bread yeast, enjoy bread flavor. Drink up. 8. (Optional) You can do other soykaf like racking, waiting longer, etc. to change/improve flavor, but the bare minimum works. t. made a lot of wine useful things: - https://brewhaus.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Brewhaus-Calculator-Alcohol-Yield-from-Sugar.html

Also, fwiw you may have heard you need hops for beer. You don't.

>>13763 if you live anywhere blackberries grow, they as well as apples and pears are incredibly easy to make cider out of.

>>13777 If just a balloon is enough why do so many use those tube systems with sanitizer in it? Have you managed to do anything really high alcohol like barley wine without tasting bad? >>13782 >Virtually impossible. Unless I am mistaken ethanol only delays methanol processing in your body if your BAC is high enough. I was more thinking along lines of mould toxin contamination and to a lesser degree bacterial toxin contamination. >Wait ~14 days at 75-85 degrees F. That is considered high temperature? That might not be too difficult since top floor of my house has been getting that hot. What if it drops below that part of the time does it halt fermentation or only slow it? You done any other fruits than grapes well? >>13784 Gruit is one of the more interesting beer varieties. You use some other herbs or plants instead of hops. Hops is somewhat related to cannabis interestingly.

>>13789 >If just a balloon is enough why do so many use those tube systems with sanitizer in it? Reusable. Easier to clean. More reliable. I didn' say the condom-balloon was perfect, it's just the easiest way to start. My preferred setup is a bit of plastic tubing that runs into a mason jar filled with water. I can even do some tricks with this to measure CO2 production over time as a proxy for alcohol production. > Have you managed to do anything really high alcohol like barley wine without tasting bad? Never tried barley wine. I've pushed to ~17%, still tasted fine to me. >methanol I have never heard of anyone having trouble with methanol in their homebrew, ever. I have never stopped to worry about it a single time, and I drink exclusively homebrewed alcohol, sometimes quite a bit at a time. >I was more thinking along lines of mould toxin contamination and to a lesser degree bacterial toxin contamination. Almost all moulds you will see are harmless. Some luxury wines even intentionally use mouldy fruit to achieve certain flavors. I have done some truly unsanitary, nasty brews and never had issues with bacterial contamination (which, when it does happen, is extremely obvious). Also, if the brew looks foul, just throw it out. You lose like... 5$? In ~25 runs from half-gallon to 5 gallon, with widely varying saniation standards, I have lost... I think one from contamination. And it was left to sit open to the air for 3+ weeks. >You done any other fruits than grapes well? - grocery store grapes - wild grapes (pungent) - blueberry - banana (very tasty) - straight sugar - raisin only - apple (delicious with a very tart apple) - honey (not a fruit but whatever) Probably forgetting something. I may have done a knotweed wine, can't recall. Hoping to try an orange or pineapple, but vaguely worried about pH and I don't drink as much as I used to. >>75-85 degrees F. >That is considered high temperature? Depend on the yeast. Most yeast don't like to go above 85-90 iirc, but it varies by strain. If they are pushing hard enough, they will heat themselves up a bit too, so you don't want to go TOO hot. I used to brew in a studio apt. with no AC and soykaf heating, so everything from 55 - 100*F was on the table, and nothing ever died outright. But brewing above 85+ and thing tend to go FAST (and the flavor may suffer). Below 65 and things go SLOW. >What if it drops below that part of the time does it halt fermentation or only slow it? Usually just slows it down. If you dropped it really low you might halt it, but you can always jumpstart with fresh yeast if necessary (just not ideal). Disclaimer: This is all just what I do. I brew for myself, my friends and family. Most of them like at least one type of wine that I've made, but not everyone likes everything. I am not picky when it comes to food/drink. I am a "lazy/unfancy" brewer. I don't bother using a hydrometer, I clean only with hot water and soap, I don't use any chemicals for clarifying/sanitizing/whateverifying/etc. But it works well enough for me, and maybe it will work for you too.

>>13789 I've never heard of methanol in homebrewing in any serious quantities. A while ago some people on a forum I followed did a bunch of digging and analysis on methanol in fermentation and basically the answer was that its pretty much associated with using woody things only. You get a tiny bit in your wine if you don't remove grape stems, but its trifling. You can't get the temp wrong and make methanol beer. I know a number of homebrewers and professional brewers and no one ever has had trouble about methanol. Ketones, sure. I've had beers ferment at wide range of temperatures. At some temperatures that are really hot for roomtemp, you can get what people perceive as off flavours. But this is I think much more of a problem when you're working with large volumes; at normal homebrewer scales the heat of fermentation bleeds off quicker because of higher surface area:volume ratio. If you're working with less than half a bbl I think you have nothing to worry about but that maybe depends on climate. Try it and see. Yeast choice also effects this so worst case just get a different yeast or find a better place in your house to set it for fermentation. >high abv without off taste Im super lazy about calculating that stuff lol. I've gotten some fairly high abvs but probably not 17% without distillation. >gruit is one of the more interesting beer varieties you don't even need gruit though everyone thinks I'm talking gruit when I say no hops. Shelf life is reduced probably but whatever. There are a lot of established styles of beer you can buy, and I think I like about one of them.

>methanol As far as I know, this is only a concern with distillation. Methanol is more volatile than ethanol, so the first few cups of spirit can contain a significant amount.

>>13792 its actually unfortunately less trivial to remove methanol during distillation than that because of chemical interactions between the two alcohols.

I made a weird buckwheat sake with some 15 dollar ~1lb koji I bought from a local asian market. Best sake I've ever had, I highly reccomend it since it's pretty damn cheap and easy to do once you have the koji. I wouldn't even bother with the yeast personally, unless you want a ton of koji. My setup isn't that fancy either, I literally just have a big jar, a 3d printed nozzle bubbler thing, a cooler, and an aquarium heater.

op here, all the concerns about accidentally producing dangerous amounts of methanol in homebrewing/distilling are a very old misconception that originated in the prohibition era when unscrupulous bootleggers would increase their profit margins by watering down liquor and then adding adulterants like food coloring and methanol to make it seem stronger, just as modern day black market drug traffickers will mix heroin with cheap fillers to inflate the volume of their product and then add adulterants like fentanyl to make it seem stronger. while yeast fermentation of fruit pectins does yield trace amounts of methanol, it is a very ineffective method of producing methanol, even fermenting the most pectin-rich fruits yields a negligible quantity, the highest recorded amount was a sample of plum wine with 1,265 mg/L, or about 0.16% methanol by volume. you will always get much more ethanol than methanol, and ethanol effectively acts as a natural antidote to the poisonous effects of methanol because it blocks metabolization of methanol in the body. that's actually how doctors used to treat poisonings by methanol and certain other toxins was by administering ethanol, children would drink things like windshield wiper fluid or engine coolant and doctors would hook them up to an iv with a solution of grain alcohol and basically get them wasted to save their lives. anyway, you can't get a significant amount of methanol from yeast fermentation and methanol has never been industrially produced that way, it was originally made from pyrolisis of wood (hence the name "wood alcohol") and nowadays it is extracted from natural gas. and when it comes to distillation, a lot of people mistakenly think that methanol can be significantly isolated by the distillation process because it has a lower boiling point than ethanol, but that's not really how it works. liquids in a solution don't evaporate one at a time, the entire solution has its own boiling point and all of the volatiles evaporate at the same time at their individual vapor pressures for that temperature, it's the reason why a conventional pot still takes multiple distillations to get to the desired 80+ proof for spirits and you can't go straight to 180 proof in one run just by careful temperature control. furthermore, ethanol and methanol have a very similar molecular structure and despite their slightly different boiling points they are very strongly linked and it is very difficult to separate one from the other. tl;dr you can't produce or isolate a significant concentration of methanol by fermenting or distilling, you are never going to accidentally poison yourself with methanol while making booze. the only dangers you have to worry about with distilling are lead poisoning from using leaded-solder on copper joints when building a homemade still, and accidentally igniting ethanol vapors and blowing yourself up, particularly when distilling to very high proofs.

I wonder id it is possible to make shochu or soju without distillation. Like just using filtering and a yeast that can produce more alcohol? Traditional soju was made with a different but similar mold. >>13791 > Yeast choice also effects this so worst case just get a different yeast or find a better place in your house to set it for fermentation. I had considered using different yeasts at different times of fermentation or just mixing them all together and let them compete. >you don't even need gruit though everyone thinks I'm talking gruit when I say no hops. Shelf life is reduced probably but whatever. There are a lot of established styles of beer you can buy, and I think I like about one of them I know it isnt just gruit just I like the idea of using plants like mugwort to see if I can get any different effects other than just normal drunkenness. >>13798 >op here, all the concerns about accidentally producing dangerous amounts of methanol in homebrewing/distilling are a very old misconception that originated in the prohibition era when unscrupulous bootleggers would increase their profit margins by watering down liquor and then adding adulterants like food coloring and methanol to make it seem stronger, just as modern day black market drug traffickers will mix heroin with cheap fillers to inflate the volume of their product and then add adulterants like fentanyl to make it seem stronger. I thought what happened was the alcohol was poisoned with methanol by authorities and they killed people from this. >while yeast fermentation of fruit pectins does yield trace amounts of methanol, it is a very ineffective method of producing methanol, even fermenting the most pectin-rich fruits yields a negligible quantity, the highest recorded amount was a sample of plum wine with 1,265 mg/L, or about 0.16% methanol by volume. you will always get much more ethanol than methanol, and ethanol effectively acts as a natural antidote to the poisonous effects of methanol because it blocks metabolization of methanol in the body. that's actually how doctors used to treat poisonings by methanol and certain other toxins was by administering ethanol, children would drink things like windshield wiper fluid or engine coolant and doctors would hook them up to an iv with a solution of grain alcohol and basically get them wasted to save their lives Yes, I was talking about pectin mostly. While ethanol can be used it only works if their body is overloaded with it consistently because all it does it the ethanol gets prioritized. So unless someone is quite a heavy drinker this likely is not that helpful. The amount of methanol wont kill you but it does more damage than ethanol over time was the concern I had.

>>13816 Okay I just now found out the Korean equivalent to sake is called makgeolli and that does not need distilled like soju and does use the nuruk. Maybe could compare how nuruk and koji differ in results.

I just bought some pineapple juice. I am thinking of brewing it into something with cayenne pepper added to it to give it a spicy kick to it. Would this taste better as a fruit wine or a fruit beer? I want at no less than 9% alcohol.

>>13838 wine and beer are basically the same thing, but in wine you have fruitjuice and in beer you have maltsyrup. Are you proposing to add one of these things ? If not, then you'll make a weird sort of wine. Gudlucklain. 9% is a kinda high aim.

>>13838 it would be a wine, fruit wines ferment a bit differently than beer does. with sweet wort made from grain, the fermentation is just one stage where the sugars are turned into alcohol and its ready to drink in about a week or so, but with fruit juice there is a ton of acids leftover after the sugar fermentation and the wine will be almost like vinegar at this stage so you need to rack it into a new jug and wait for secondary fermentation that breaks down the acids which takes a lot longer, like at least a month or more. i imagine a citrus fruit like pineapple would take especially long because of how acidic it is, but it's doable and people make pineapple wine. you might try a wine yeast like 71b that is particularly good about breaking down acids.

ive done some more research on the koji beer idea and from what i've gathered, the starch conversion with koji grain would have to go a lot slower than with malted barley because the enzymes from koji are not as heat tolerant as enzymes from malt and there's not as much of them either, so starch conversion would have to be done at a temperature no higher than about 140F and would take at least several hours to get a decent conversion. where i live the only cheap grain i can source locally is corn which costs about 10 bucks for a 50lb bag. unfortunately nobody around here sells barley or wheat or rye or anything else, only corn. so i might try colonizing some corn with koji and seeing what i can brew with that. i have an instant pot that works really well for hydrating grain with a small amount of water, it's what i used to hydrate popcorn for mushroom grain spawn and it only took about 45 minutes to do what would normally take hours of boiling on the stove, so i figure i could just grind up some corn into a coarse grind and use the instant pot to quickly gelatinize and sterilize it and inoculate with koji spores after it cools and then in a couple days or so have koji corn ready to mash and ferment with or throw the freezer to save for later use. the traditional method for making sake as i understand it doesn't involve any separate mashing process, they just throw the koji rice into a fermenter full of cold water and do the starch conversion and fermenting simultaneously and keep it at a cool temperature to preserve the delicate flavors, so it takes quite a long time to brew sake, like a month or so. i think i would rather do a hot water mash with the grain in a paint strainer bag as i've done in the past when making normal beer, at the maximum temperature the koji enzymes can handle and try to get a reasonable starch conversion as quickly as possible, then let it cool and settle and siphon the wort into my fermenting jug and pitch with an ale yeast, maybe abbaye by lallemande which is a pretty high abv yeast meant for belgian ales that develops a lot of fruity esters that might work better for something like this than a more generic ale yeast like nottingham which is what i've normally used in the past. i still have some fuggle and cascade hop pellets lying around but i would probably omit the hopping for the first attempt just to get an idea of what it tastes like by itself. i don't really expect this to be very good but who knows, it might be interesting to try.

>>13839 Yes I was considering getting malt extract, though that will increase the total cost. I am not sure if the cayenne will interfere with fermentation or not. If I need extra sugar I may add brown sugar for the added flavor to give it a sort of rum like characteristic since I have some on hand. Was aiming for something sort of similar to tepache. >>13840 I was thinking of just fermenting in the bottles it came in since they are likely sterile enough if I just freshly open them I just need to remove juice some to make room for yeast and any rising from carbonation. I do like sour drinks so if it turns out kind of sour that is fine as long as not too much. I had even considered starting it like a kombucha first as the start fermentation before moving on to using yeast but that may risk reducing the alcohol if it breaks down too much sugar if I do not remove enough scoby and that is just more steps when I want to just do whatever is easy and get decent results. I likely do not want to wait months or even a few weeks.

>>13846 well you can also extract malt syrup from malt grain very ez I've carbonated in bottles, you may get some sediment but if you're fine with that then its fine. Clean out as soon as bottle empties though lol. I assume the cayenne will not interfere but nice thing about fermenting in small bottles is that you can do experiments on small subdivisions for comparison. If time is important then make sure to set someplace warm. Don't leave them sealed, just closed enough flies dont get in, and if you want carbonation seal when its nearly done.

>>13847 aaaaaaAACK! meant fermented in bottles, not merely carbonated.

>I likely do not want to wait months or even a few weeks. if that's the case then making wine from fruit juice isn't the best choice, wine takes time. with only a week or so of fermentation it's going to be like drinking yeasty battery acid. if you want something that is enjoyable to drink within a week or so beer is pretty much the only option.

>>13857 >>13847 Didnt even start yet since have to pick a yeast to order since nothing on hand and already fuarrrked up. Turns out Simply Pineapple is not simply pineapple juice it is pineapple with mango pureé and some lemon juice for tartness and added sugar that is why it was cheaper than others. It also says to keep refrigerated and i had it out in near 90⁰F temperature for over 2 hours and just room temp after then for two days. Hopefully not regretably drank a few glasses to taste test so i know what i am working with and find it isnt tangy enough or sweet enough so it clearly is watered down a bit. I was right that cayenne goes good flavor wise though but likely should only be added later after fermenting not before because it has some anti fungal properties to it so it might work against yeast if enough of it but small amounts may do nothing. When I was doing research i came across pectin enzyme that breaks that down but i am not sure if that is purely for aesthetics of clearing cloudiness or if it helps the flavor too since it seems more a winemaking thing so im not sure. Seems you add the enzyme just before the yeast or same time since it doesnt do well with alcohol. Whenever I look into pineapple beer tepacha just comes up and that is not very high alcohol but that is because it uses yeast naturally on pineapple but getting organic pineapple isnt that cost effective which is why I didnt think to start with a pineapple and just go to juice so i can do least effort. And yes while i hope to have a relatively good alcohol content relatively fast i dont want a trash flavor otherwise id just be using sugar and water and yeast.

>>13862 >i dont want a trash flavor otherwise id just be using sugar and water and yeast. You take that back. Sugar-Water-Yeast can make fairly tasty wine. Seriously though lain, stop overthinking it and start brewing and drinking it. Even using grocery store bread yeast things can turn out ok, just lower % alcohol and very bread-y flavor. But if you like eating bread, who gives a soykaf? Most important thing is to fail fast so you can learn what works and what doesn't. >juice choice Make sure it doesn't have a soykafload of preservatives. Those can and will fuarrrk up your ferment. >drinking yeasty battery acid No need to overstate things. It won't be delicious, but it will be perfectly drinkable. Maybe not enjoyable, but certainly not vomit-inducing nightmare fuel. Honestly the biggest issue I notice with very green wines like this is that they are very sweet, since most yeast won't be done fermenting after a week. (This is an issue because I don't like sugary things.) (I always taste my wine while racking, and I've racked a few very fast-running wines off at ~1 week before.)

>>13868 I've definitly had beers ferment fully in well under a week but preferment sugar content is probably lower than you're working with and I live in a warm area. Lots of factors but yes, >>13862 should just go ahead and try it and see don't over think it there's really not much to it. Yeast selection matters, yes, but just get something that sounds ok and you'll be fine.

>>13868 Why does a shorter ferment lead to more flavor from the yeast though?

I used to make yeast water from all kinds of things but apple was the easiest and tastiest

>>13873 The majority of yeast will form "clumps" and fall/crash out of solution over time. So your solution will go from: water with yeast evenly mixed throughout -> water with a layer of yeast at the bottom. Then you can "rack" the solution by pouring it off and discarding/leaving behind the layer of yeast at the bottom. For wine yeast, yeast-crashing takes ~1-4 weeks or longer (often depends sugar/temperature/etc). For bread yeast, they crash much more slowly (4 weeks ++), so the yeast-y flavor will hang around much longer. Other stuff will also crash out of your wine over time (fancy wine people will talk about tannins and blah blah blah), and this will change the flavor, but tends to happen over much longer timescales. Nobody asked, but I'll recommend EC-1118 as my go-to wine yeast. Pros: Reasonably temperature tolerance, good alcohol tolerance, cheap, behaves "robustly" in my hands (haven't had problems with it stalling). Also, if you want to stretch your yeast out, you can use a small portion of the packet + a small portion of your brewing volume to "grow out" the yeast for 6-24 hours. Then dump this "grow-out" solution into your main brew. e.g: If they recommend 25g dried yeast for 5 gallons, you can put 5g into 1gal, let it grow sufficient for 5+ doublings, and then dump that into the remaining 4 gal. Yeast usually double every ~2 hours, plus a some time to acclimate after coming out of the powder. So 5 doublings would be ~10 hours + some change, lets say 14 to be safe. Then you can save the remaining 20g of dried yeast in the freezer for another brew. Question: Has anyone here successfully recovered, refrozen, and re-used yeast from a brew they have run?

>>13876 Ive used frozen sourdough starter which I froze. Not done it with beer but maybe I should try. Often reuse yeast from previous brews for later beers when brewing one after the other, just rack out the beer and throw the new wort in the same fermenter.

>>13876 EC 1118 coincidentally is what I chose for my pineapple wine. Removed 1/2 and 1/3 cup juice from Simply Pineapple bottle to make room and added about 150 grams light brown sugar I had on hand + 1/4 teaspoon cayenne. It got pretty foamy after just half an hour. Accidentally added a lot more yeast than I really needed but oh well. Topped the bottle with a used rubber glove and I added a coffee filter between due to that reason and tied it off. Just hope I didn't accidentally damage the yeast with a UVC light that was near by that decides to turn itself on. I dont think it had direct exposure. Hard to tell if it is still producing bubbles with that thick layer of foamy yeasty mess on top. It is redish too because the cayenne got pulled up

>>13900 > Hard to tell if it is still producing bubbles with that thick layer of foamy yeasty mess on top. Your airlock (balloon, condom, glove, etc.) should tell you this. 1) Make sure airlock is TIGHTLY sealed (use a rubber band) 2) Make sure airlock has 1 pinprick hole in the tip After doing the above, squeeze your airlock to deflate it. If it inflates with gas, your yeast are doing fine. Don't squeeze it again, when it naturally deflates you will know the run is winding down.

>>13900 glass blocks a lot of UVC and water more, even if it did damage there's almost no way it sterilized the whole bottle. If its no longer fermenting its probably something else

>>13901 I loosely tied off some fingers just now so it can be easier to see it raise a single finger because too mich to fill right now. It is tied off with a rubber band below the rim lip edge but i think it is rotting so there is a risk of it breaking off. I have kite string to hopefully help reduce that risk till i find another rubber band that isnt degrading. I may add a tiny hole once it fills up more since it takes a lot of pressure to stretch these gloves so it may cause it to blow off if i dont. For no i am not so i can see it inflate. Yeast layer is about an inch thick because the lower neck of the container and adding too much maybe 2 thirds a packet so about 3 grams for just 1.3 liters of what is left of the pineapple + bit of mango juice. Has enough sugar it can potentially get pretty high alcohol unless my scale is off but I likely will stop it early to not be too dry so i dont have to backsweeten or add non fermentable sugar substitutes early in brew. I used a sugar to alcohol calculator to estimate my added sugar needed. https://calculator.academy/sugar-to-alcohol-calculator/ >>13902 It is just a plastic bottle the juice came in, not ideal but only other option I had is a container that i likely cant get a very tight seal on for second ferment. It was near the top where only the glove and the coffee filter are. I dont think it was shinning directly down for long but there was reflective light onto the yeast. Maybe that eliminated bacteria so could be good if it did not harm the yeast. Hopefully the coffee filter isnt a bad idea i know it risks getting mold on it if it gets damp so i have to keep an eye on it from looking up from below.

>>13876 you can freeze wet yeast culture and preserve it for quite a long time, adding a little glycerin will keep ice crystals from destroying it.

Do i have to worry about yeast clumps stuck to the side of the container getting mouldy or bacteria from not being submerged? I cant seem to knock them down.

>>13904 I've done this in a laboratory context before, but never with brewed yeast. Guess I'll have to just try it. >>13917 >>Do i have to worry about yeast clumps stuck to the side of the container getting mouldy or bacteria from not being submerged? I cant seem to knock them down. Nah, absolutely no worries as long as it is sealed up and full of CO2. If your brewing container is leaky / not holding gas well, it is still a non-issue for the first few weeks of brewing. For the tail end, you DO want something that is holding gas-pressure, but 95% of the reason for that is just to keep it tasting good. For the future, you can avoid most (not all) of the yeast-clumps-on-glass by: - pitching with less yeast - careful swirling of the container to wash everything into solution - not running in a hot area, so the brew isn't TURBOCHARGED at the start But since yeast on glass is a 100% non-issue, don't worry about it. The above advice is more for avoiding having the head of growing yeast blow out your airlock (as in, grow so tall it runs right out of your container). >>13900 I've run brews in 100% sunlight in the summer for 3+ weeks no issue. >>13903 Plastic bottle is fine. Coffee filter is dumb, toss that soykaf. Make sure the airlock is holding pressure. If it ain't, go buy an unlubed condom or a balloon and use that instead. I used to brew in plastic gallon jugs from milk, works fine. Wide neck = better for getting airlock to seal. If you know a femanon, ask her for a hairtie and use that instead of a rubber band (if you are too lazy to just, yknow, get a rubber band). Also >> to not be too dry No such thing.

>>13919 >Plastic bottle is fine. Coffee filter is dumb, toss that soykaf. Make sure the airlock is holding pressure. If it ain't, go buy an unlubed condom or a balloon and use that instead. The glove is standing upright so seems to be working fine. I am hesitant to open it up to get out the coffee filter I had cut down. Peaking up at the bottom I do not see any signs of mold on it. >If you know a femanon, ask her for a hairtie and use that instead of a rubber band (if you are too lazy to just, yknow, get a rubber band). I had found another rubber band that isnt rotting so im good. Not sure why I didnt think of hair ties, i have some but they tend to wear down easier than rubber bands in time and are not as stretchy. >No such thing. I meant more dry than I want. Since it is a pineapple wine with cayenne pepper so without some sweetness it may come off overpowering. The cayenne was meant to serve a few purposes. To cover over any off flavors, to add a balance and complexity to sweetness and to reduce risk of infection while brewing. The brown sugar used is for hopefully added flavor complexity and for added nutrients present in the molasses in the brown sugar to help the yeast at least in theory.

I guess nitrile gloves are not air tight or there is a small hole. Seems to be deflating a little now it is a less hot where I have it fermenting. Been 6 days since started. I can smell the alcohol. Not sure if that is because it might be already relatively high ABV or the carbonation is carrying the fumes more.

>>13920 >>13926 >Seems to be deflating a little now it is a less hot where I have it fermenting. Been 6 days since started. The condom/balloon/glove type airlocks always bleed some gas, don't worry too much. This probably just means alcohol/co2 production is slowing down. >I can smell the alcohol. Good sign. > Not sure if that is because it might be already relatively high ABV Depends on many factors, but it is probably a fair ways to done. See attached for a little plot estimate CO2/ethanol production over time for a 4 gallon banana wine run I did a while back. This is just to give you an idea of what the alcohol production curve will look like (e.g: lots at the start, little at the end). Area under the curve = % of total alcohol made between those two time points. So, in this case, ~50% of the alcohol got made in the first ~200-250 hours (~9 days) and the last 50% took an additional ~20 days. That run was probably done under fairly generous heat (80+F). But don't take this exact timeline as gospel, things will vary a lot from batch to batch. If it were me, I'd probably let it run another 1-2 weeks tops and then just drink it raw (as in: no aging, no racking, etc. Just don't stir up the yeast when you pour it into a glass to drink). Since you are only making a tiny amount (iirc ~1L??), not worth sitting on it imo, better to taste it, learn from this run, and start a bigger + better one. I wouldn't expect it to be delicious (cayenne is a wild choice), but the point of your first few brews is really just to get some practice and figure out what does/doesn't work. You can always mix it with orange juice or refridgerate it to make it taste better. For next time, I'd focus on bigger volume, better airlock, better starting juice.

>>13934 It nearly entirely deflated now and the yeast stopped floating to the top. Is a cooler day though but it is still high 70s F where it is fermenting. Did it get stuck or just slow down or is it already complete likely? Has only been 11 days but most days have been around that temperature sometimes more.

>>13946 give it a taste but my bet is that its basically as fermented as its going to get. Not that lain though.

>>13946 I agree with >>13947 If it ain't holding pressure, and you have a soykafty glove airlock, it's time to start drinking. 70s is fine for temp. It's probably still running, but slowly. If you had a nice airlock, I'd say let it go another week. But b/c glove airlock, you gotta worry about losing CO2 pressure, so just start drinking. If it tastes like ass, add orange juice.

>>13948 You seem like a savvy guy. I've been trying to improve the beer I'm producing and I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on getting natural carbonation right. I've gotten good enough at force carbonating that I don't really think of doing it naturally any more haha but its certainly an inefficiency even if a small one and aesthetically I dislike it.

>>13949 appreciate the complement, but you should try drinking the swill i make first. never made beer, so no clue on carbonation there. if i want a carbonated wine i just bottle it a bit earlier than usual. i've had the full range from perfectly flat to blow the cap off sparkling, just by bottling at different stages of fermentation. back sweetening doesn't seem to help much for increasing carbonation in the bottle, but i've only tried it once since I don't like sweet wines (was for a mead i was making as a gift). timing of backsweetening and % alcohol before backsweetening almost certainly make a difference here.

>>13948 Thanks for the help. It tastes a little sour and mildly sweet and the cayenne flavor is actually not very noticable just a mild lingering after tingle on my tongue. Did something go wrong or is that just off flavor from a fast fermentation? It isnt a bad taste but it makes it more difficult to tell if there is much alcohol in it from just taste. Id have to drink more later to see if it gets me drunk if it doesnt it turned to vinegar instead of alcohol but i think there is some alcohol in it but I dont think it is more than 7% because the taste is not that harsh. I used an LED UVC wand (assuming it even works) to sanitize the plastic lid and screwed it back on so it can ferment a little more though i am concerned it turned to vinegar and more will turn if I dont stop it. Tastes more similar to a gose than a wine maybe from the bits of yeast in it. I feel a bit different from just a few sips so I think more than ethanol alcohol was produced. There also is some light spots on the coffee filter but i think it is just cayenne that got splashed up to it when i agitated it uding a massager it splashed some. >>13949 That was a different Lain. It gets funny when people reply like that where it sounds like it is the original person spoken to.

>>13953 I'd chuck it in the fridge and try to finish it within a week. If it turns to vinegar for real you'll know. Taste can be inaccurate for determining ABV, you can make a 10% abv beer that people guess is 5%. There's a lot of factors that go into how something tastes in your mouth. Next time, if you want to be more sure, measure the fluid density before and after fermentation.

>>13953 > Did something go wrong or is that just off flavor from a fast fermentation? I'm 99% certain nothing went "wrong" as in spoilage. weird tastes from short fermentation are certainly possible. >vinegar 0.1% odds. takes a long time to make vinegar. > but I dont think it is more than 7% because the taste is not that harsh as >>13954 said, tasting ethanol is not easy. harshness and ethanol aren't strictly aligned until like 25+%, and even then i've tasted some absurdly smooth home-stilled moonshine. >yeasty taste if you got a decent crash (layer of dead yeast at bottom), you can rack it off and then put it in the fridge. if a bunch more crashes, rack it again, and so on. >UVC for sterilization if it makes you happy, sure. i've never used more than warm soapy water.

>>13955 >racking Or you can just put it in the fridge and then rack. Getting it cool helps the yeast fall out, but you don't need to if you don't care. >sterilization I use phosphoric acid sanitizers a lot but I'm probably working on larger batches than most people here and paranoia pays a bit if you dont want infections. >weird tastes yeast also just causes various new tastes; its probably the second or third biggest factor for flavor, and the most nuanced one.

>>13954 >>13955 >>13956 After chilling and transfering to another container the sour taste isnt very noticable anymore. Just tastes like a dry but semi sweet wine with that mild tongue tingle that lingers. It is fairly good.

>>13957 glad it worked out for ya. make sure to take notes for next time. post a pic if the finished wine in a nice glass if you wanna show off. if you want to try bottling (in the future, when you do a bigger batch), you have 3 choices (i like 2+3): #1 wine bottles + corks pros: - "fancy" - let's wine "breathe" (maybe useful for long aging) - get big muscle driving corks - ??? cons: - expensive corks (~1-2$ each iirc). need expensive cork driver too. - have to worry about pressure buildup if bottling green #2 beer bottles pros: - free bottles - cheap bottle caps (3-5c each iirc) - sturdy - single-serving - no concerns about pressure buildup cons: - not as fancy - wine cannot "breathe" - need bottle-capper (i like the two-handle pusher kind) #3 lemonade/sparkling water bottles that reseal pros: - reusable - get them at aldi's or w/e for 1-3$, beverage included cons: - not single serving no matter which of 1-3 you pick, you should buy a bottle brush for like 2$ online.

here's some wine i started from grocery store grape concentrate and 71b yeast a few weeks ago. i used three 12 oz cans of concentrate and 92 oz of filtered water and a cup of table sugar to boost the abv a bit. i just racked it recently and it smelled okay, still quite yeasty and sweet it will probably need several more weeks and another racking before it's ready. i added a pinch of gelatin dissolved in water to help it clear, which i've done in the past for making beer and had good results with. i'm sure that's probably not the standard clarifying agent for winemaking and wine snobs would probably have a problem with that, but wine snobs are also the worst human beings who ever lived, so whatever.

>>13964 When you say grape concentrate, what exactly do you mean? Don't think I've ever seen this for sale before... >gelatin for clearing Neat idea. When you say clear here, do you mean crashing yeast, or removing some other sort of particulate matter? e.g: when I do a fruit-mash wines, I frequently get tiny fruit particulate-cloudiness in the finished bottles, which crashes out after 2-4 months. This is strictly an aesthetic issue, so I don't mind it, but do you think gelatin would this help remove this sort of thing? >wine snobs please show this publication to any and all wine snobs you have the misfortune of encountering.

>>13992 not him but I've heard of using it in beer to help crash stuff out faster. Now that I think about it I should consider using it I've been having some cloudy beers. Not a terrible problem, but sometimes people complain. >strictly aesthetic IME with kegs (which draw liquid from the bottom) you can often get a couple glasses with considerable quantities of whatever has crashed out either at the beginning or the end of the keg. In high enough concentrations such sediments are more than aesthetic but we're probably talking about saving a couple glasses of product per barrel or something.

>>13963 Personally I'm a big fan of number 4, swing top reusable bottles. You may need to get new gasquettes but they're very easy and pretty good in my experience, and they're also kinda fancy. Some stores sell drinks in them or you can get them online or whatever. Bottlebrushes are good.

>>13992 >When you say grape concentrate, what exactly do you mean? Don't think I've ever seen this for sale before... it's just frozen concentrated grape juice that comes in 12 oz cans that you find in the frozen food section of most grocery stores, costs around $2 a can in the us. one 12 oz can makes 48 oz of juice. that was just the cheapest grape juice i could source locally. >When you say clear here, do you mean crashing yeast, or removing some other sort of particulate matter? the yeast will crash on its own over time, the gelatin just helps to settle out some of the particulate. gelatin is basically just glue, it sticks to things and makes them clump together and sink to the bottom.

>>13877 >Often reuse yeast from previous brews for later beers when brewing one after the other, just rack out the beer and throw the new wort in the same fermenter. Just gave this a try yesterday, I happened to be racking off my sumac wine the same day I was starting a peach wine, so I took ~500mL of the yeasty crud from the bottom of the sumac and pitched it into the peach. Woke up today to the wonderful blub blub sound of happy yeast, so it worked. Next challenge is gonna be freezing and reusing... QUESTION FOR THE THREAD: Has anyone here done a LARGE (approaching micro-commercial sizes) batch before? I'm talking like, 50 gallons plus (yes yes, ATF stinky, whatever). I've been brewing for myself for ~5 years and am starting to get ok-ish results. Been thinking about making a shoestring budget micro-winery for fun, so I'm wondering what unique issues show up with scale.

>>14202 I have done a number of beer batches in the 50-100gal range. Feel free to ask questions. Its much the same just bigger. The only novel problem that immediately springs to my mind is that with that sort of volume the heat from fermentation can start to be a serious problem. Its good to monitor the temperature closely as it can start to try to overheat itself, but its still under the threshold where you really need active cooling as a matter of course. Can you talk a little about the setup you plan to use ? I assume you're getting a pump or something?

>>14203 Thanks for the reply, would appreciate any and all advice you care to share. >Can you talk a little about the setup you plan to use ? All still far enough in the future that I haven't thought too much about it. To clarify, I was planning on doing 50-200 gallon runs of wine, likely fruit wines since that's what I enjoy making and can make reliably/cheaply. My general idea was: 1) Grab a 50-100 gallon plastic tank intended for drinking water / food grade (any suggestions would be welcome) 2) Drill out a hole for an airlock hose (I usually use the 1/2" diameter hose they sell for potable water plumbing) 3) Run it the same way I run a 5-6 gallon run (dump in fruit / yeast / sugar appropriately prepped, run it for 2-3 weeks, rack, run it for 2 weeks, rack, so on) My big concerns were: 1) Getting/making an airlock that can handle that volume of CO2 (I'm assuming 2" diameter hose into a bucket of water will work just fine, just a scaled up version of the 1/2" hose into a mason jar full of water) 2) Keeping it from overheating (you mentioned this, any ideas on how cooling is handled if necessary?) 3) Moving liquid for racking (I guess they do sell pumps for this, probably a smart idea...) 4) Unknown unknowns. Probably lots of issues that I don't even know exist with scale (e.g: I'd completely forgotten about temperature being an issue until you mentioned it, although years ago I'd read about 10-20 gallon turbo-yeast runs having similar problems). For yeast, do you add some massive amount of dry yeast, or do you grow up a small amount for 24-48 hours separately and then pitch that in instead? (e.g: for 5 gallon runs, I usually only use enough yeast for 1/2 gallon and just let it run in a 1L container for 12-24 hours to squeeze 4-6 doublings out of it before I pitch).

>>14205 >1) Grab a 50-100 gallon plastic tank intended for drinking water / food grade (any suggestions would be welcome) I'm not sure I have any good suggestions it depends where you are and what you can find. You can get IBC totes meant for drinking water. I'm not entirely familiar with wine...does this need to get hot? I guess I would want some sort of conical bottom but maybe beggars can't be choosers. How do you plan to clean this thing ? >2) Drill out a hole for an airlock hose (I usually use the 1/2" diameter hose they sell for potable water plumbing) sounds fine. I'd have to check but I think that I used a 1/2" inner diameter flexible hose in a bucket and it wasn't that violent (I wouldn't set it on a carpet though haha) >3) Run it the same way I run a 5-6 gallon run (dump in fruit / yeast / sugar appropriately prepped, run it for 2-3 weeks, rack, run it for 2 weeks, rack, so on) Be prepared for it to take less time than you expect. I'm sure this depends on your weather and all but fairly often for me I've had beer batches this size that ferment in less than 24 hours. Wine may be different, your climate may be different, etc etc. >big concerns >1 airlock needs to be big again I use a ~ 1/2" hose, 2" is probably way more than you need, but I dont think you'd regret being oversize. >2 overheating Depends on your climate, I have a pretty big fan to blast right at the fermenter and that does a decent amount. You could maybe put a trickle of water over the fermenter if you really need to. >3 moving liquid as far as I can see the big options are either a pump, gravity, or air pressure. You probably won't have a container that can hold much air pressure so I assume its one of the first two. What do you plan to dispense into ? You could build a frame so the fermenter just stands a few feet above the floor and dispense by gravity. Or keep your eye out for a cheap brewery pump. >4 unknown unknowns I'll keep trying to think about other surprises, for now I'll just say to think through your cleaning process. You're going to get a lot of yeasty sludge at the bottom of the fermenter and stuck to the walls...where does that go? Are you going to empty it out all at once or is there going to be stuff sitting in for weeks as you slowly empty it and let crud dry on the walls ? Some of these big liquid containers are basically impossible to get inside, you can try to setup some sort of clean in place sprayer but then you probably need a good pump. Also, again I'm used to beer where you typically have the wort pretty hot before and need to cool it down before pitching the yeast. IDK if you're going to have boiling juice/must that you want to cool down quickly before it hits the fermenter, but if yest thats something to think about cause it takes a long time for 50gal to drop to the temperature you can pitch the yeast at. >yeast I am >13877 ; fairly often I reuse the yeast from the last batch. When not doing that, I typically use a serious amount of dry yeast pitched directly in the fermenter. There might be a better way, but this is just what I have been doing.

>>14206 >>IBC totes (the water cubes with the metal cage) This is exactly what I was thinking, I just had no idea what they were called. I'd seen em all around for water storage in rural areas, figured one would work great. >>I guess I would want some sort of conical bottom but maybe beggars can't be choosers. Never been lucky enough to have one before, for better or worse. I could see how it could be nice for making it easier to work around the yeast layer. >> I'd have to check but I think that I used a 1/2" inner diameter flexible hose in a bucket and it wasn't that violent >>2" is probably way more than you need Good to know! I'll probably go with 1" then. >>Be prepared for it to take less time than you expect. >>24 hours Goddamn 24 hours is world record time. I think the fastest I've had one run was ~7-9 days, and that was in ~85-90 degree apartment with no AC. This is good to know though for sure. >>I have a pretty big fan to blast right at the fermenter and that does a decent amount. You could maybe put a trickle of water over the fermenter if you really need to. Noted, thanks. >>as far as I can see the big options are either a pump, gravity, or air pressure. You probably won't have a container that can hold much air pressure so I assume its one of the first two. Currently I just siphon via gravity for racking and bottling. Sounds mighty slow for something of this size, but I guess a bigger diameter hose would help things a bit. Keeping an eye out for a pump or figuring out a way to rig one up is a good idea. >>What do you plan to dispense into ? Final product would probably end up in beer bottles, b/c that's all I ever use (and resealable's, but those would be more in overhead to procure at scale). (Never got into wine bottles b/c they cost way more, corks are expensive, in-bottle aging/breathing is less of a concern, and I sometimes like to bottle wines a bit active for "sparkle" and don't want to worry about blowing up a bottle along the way) However, this raises a big issue (unknown unknown #1): How the hell am I going to handle racking? Usually I rack 2-4 times in a brew, going from the brewing 5gallon into an empty 5 gallon (and back again on the next rack, and so on). But having to buy 2 50+ gallon containers sounds wasteful. Also I can only gravity-transfer from up to down, so either I'd need a clever staggering setup or a pump if I'm going to be racking more than once. unknown unknown #2: How much does an empty, or mostly empty + yeast sludge 50+gallon container weigh? Hopefully light enough that I can move em around semi-easily for cleaning and such. (Poking around the web, 275gal IBC weighs in at ~130+lbs, which is heavier than ideal...) >>How do you plan to clean this thing ? >> for now I'll just say to think through your cleaning process. You're going to get a lot of yeasty sludge at the bottom of the fermenter and stuck to the walls...where does that go? Good point. For 5 gallon batches, I usually rack to an empty bucket, then clean the dirty one immediately. By the time I get to the bottling stage, I have ~95+% "clean" wine, so very little yeast/misc. dregs left behind. Normally at small scale I bottle all at once, I was *imagining* I could do the same at 50gal+ but this may not be ideal. So, ideally, I would either have the brewing container full and in-use, or empty and cleaned out ASAP. But figuring out the logistics (like, how do I move a 130+lb thing around for cleaning) will take some thinking. Might be better off finding smaller containers if I can... 2x100 instead of 1x275 or whatnot. Actually, I was thinking of only running like 500-1000 bottle batches (355mL beer bottle-size) at most until I know people actually want to buy it, in which case I'd only need ~100 gallons of capacity. That could solve a lot of weight issues if I can find a reliable container in that size. >>it takes a long time for 50gal to drop to the temperature you can pitch the yeast at. Another good point. Currently I boil the fruit+sugar, toss to bucket, add RT water to reach desired volume, wait for it to cool (ready immediately - O/N cooling dependent on fruit volume etc) and then pitch yeast. With something big like 50gal+, how long would you guesstimate it takes for cooling? Like, a day, or more like a week? I could coopt whatever system I have for cooling during the brew for helping to cool it prior to pitching the yeast... Thanks for all the info lain! Hope you like this picture.

>>14207 >Never been lucky enough to have one before, for better or worse. I could see how it could be nice for making it easier to work around the yeast layer. they're certainly nice to have but not necessary for sure >goddam 24 hours yeah most aren't that fast for me but 7 days is basically unheard of long. >sounds mighty slow for something this size for bottling I think I'd want to do more in parallel rather than just one faster. Maybe if you're fast with filling one at a time you could get a friend to cap for you and not need to keep changing gears. >don't want to worry about blowing up a bottle >he hasn't blown up beer bottles wow nice >the problem of racking Have you considered setting up a racking arm? see pic related. The idea is basically that you get a rigid arm with a bend in it and use it to pick where in the tank you draw from, so you can draw from above the yeast. In the schematic it settles in the cone but the same principal can be used without a cone. Obviously you need to be careful about letting the thing rotate without leaking. Personally I don't do the constant reracking you do and try to just pour all the beer off the yeast all at once. Doesn't always work as well as I wish though haha >weight My bet is that its manageable but very awkward when its basically empty. Maybe you want a scrubbrush with like a yard long arm ? Are you cutting the top open so you have a wide door assuming you go with IBC tote? You could even just climb inside the thing and scrub it out, don't need to move it basically at all. >bottling all at once we're talking 500 bottles in one go. You can do it I believe in you but that's a lot of bottles. Have you looked at kegging? Sometimes you can get cheap used kegs that are ok. On the other hand then you need couplers and air to drive things and its a whole nother rigamarole. I have also heard of people making brewing systems out of old/damaged kegs, you could get a couple 1/2bbl=31gal kegs and set something up. Not saying you should its just an option, and steel is nice. >how long would you guesstimate it takes for cooling? Hours, but less than a day. Theoretically this is maybe bad for letting infections start growing before you even get the yeast in there, but I imagine just letting it cool while covered and basically sealed won't be that bad if you're careful about cleaning etc. You could possibly run it through a copper pipe in a bucket of cool water when you're transfering it into the fermenter, to give it a nudge in the right direction. Or just blast with the fan. Thank you for the picture. With beer we really do cereal experiments of course haha.

>>13763 I actively am trying to find the cheapest but still good tasting way to make wine. already have a pound of distillers yeast and bought yeast nutrient. have tried frozen fruit juice in the past with success. also had bought 10 pounds of sugar and a small amount of honey for taste with success as well. Really wanted to use maple syrup, but it's so goddamn expensive. so currently im using artificial, non sugar free, pancake syrup without the butter flavor. Will report back when it's done. It seems to be working so far though.

>>14220 besides sugar+yeast, which does work and as you mentioned, can be pretty darn good, i would say... Banana wine. ~3lbs ripe bananas per gallon, plus sugar to actually make the alcohol. Boil the bananas and the sugar together for a half hour to make it really mushy. It sounds foul, but the end product tastes shockingly good. >maple syrup is expensive You can try asking rurals during sap season (early spring), might have luck getting it cheaper.

>>14220 I think this depends on your geographic area. If you want maple syrup and are not in a maple syrup area, its going to be expensive. On the other hand if you live in the right place if you look around you can maybe get some for cheap. I'd consider your geographic area; what is being produced nearby ? then start trying to feel around for possible sources. Its possible that you could find some small farm or food industry place that would be willing to give you reject produce at a great deal, but where I live is going to be way different than where you live.