Survival/Prepper General

Discuss how to survive inevitable capitalist crisis and collapse. >How to form a communist tribe or gang to protect yourself >Mutual aid and where to get it >What to put in a bug out bag >What essentials to actually stockpile >Skills needed to gather food and water >What food to grow >What to do if you dont have a home or your own personal albanian bunker >Makeshift shelters/squatting >Where to go/stay

>>12611 Take this with a grain of salt and do your own research. Make your own decisions and be safe. If you can, choose a safe place to live. Consider natural and artificial threats in making your decision. Also hospital proximity and local crime rates. Historically civilization has clustered around waterways, so living a safe distance from one isn't necessarily a bad idea. >survival >supplies I got a lot out of https://yewtu.be/channel/UCSF08irENp73EwqJ42rCsIQ >help Make friends with nearby people. Neighbors, coworkers, etc. Anywhere you spend time. To curry favor with non-friends, have things that you can trade. Criteria: small, light, conveniently portioned. Gold and silver coins, a Rolex, food, etc. If you or a loved one has a health problem, make sure to keep a good supply.

>>12612 *If you or a loved one has a health problem, make sure to keep a good supply of medicine/medical supplies.

Prepping is 90% retail therapy and the apocalypse is already here, it’s just not evenly distributed.

When the average person doesn't have water, food, and shelter, there will be a world-wide riot. People will all start killing each other for these things. Everything will be destroyed or abandoned. People will become hunter-gatherers again, scavenging off what remains of civilization until it's all gone. Then they will be left with nothing but themselves and nature. Mankind lived that way for tens of thousands, maybe humdreds of thousands, of years. To live off of nature, people will have to go where nature is abundant with fresh water for drinking and fishing, and woodlands for game, foraging, fuel, and building material. Then civilization will begin anew with control of fire and stone tools, and social customs that allow people to live together in groups. When overpopulation depletes the woodlands, agriculture will become necessary again. If someone has preserved a body of knowledge about the main technologies of higher civilization, and some means of learning its language, then people could conceivably re-develop most modern technologies technologies in a relativly short period of time, maybe a few nudred years. That would include written language, ceramics, metal smelting, the wheel, scientific method. mathematics, medicine. Then the use of concentrated fuels like fossil fuels would create another industrial revolution. That would provide all the energy needed to develp mass production of metals, machinery, generation of electricity. At each stage, overpopulation would occur for the ability of the current technolofy to support it, and that would casue the necessity for the development of the next phase of technology to ease the burden. Eventuall, the technologies and societal structures would become so complex and strained that it wouldn't take much to make the whole thing collapse once again. Like today. Ask yourself, "what did people do after the Bronze Age collapse? What did people do after the Iron Age collapse? What if the collapse was even more profound and complete, with even the biosphere being changed dramatically?" Once you answer these questions, you will know how to prepare.

Looks like I got tricked into replying to a reposter, so sharing my reply over here before cleaning it up. Reply theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ics4PszkzvI

What if I live in a city that is probably gonna be among the first cities nuked in a nuclear war? How can I get my own nuclear bunker for cheap?

>>12626 There's no surviving a direct hit, not even military bunkers. They don't take VIPs to bunkers but evacuate them by chopper if a nuke is inbound. If you survive it will be pic related but worse.

>>12626 After a nuclear holocaust, the northern hemisphere is going to be a bad place to be for a long time. Not only chaos, but circulating winds carrying fallout. If you're really worried about it, move to the southern hemisphere now.

>>12628 Aren't hydrogen bombs "clean", meaning no fallout?

>>12629 Each hydrogen bomb has a layer of fission bombs that all explode simultaneously to provide x-ray containment pressure .That was Teller's big idea that made them possible.

>>12627 thats actually not true people surprisingly close to the actual center of hiroshima were fine. Their trick ? Being damn lucky. The world is weird and life is precarious, but a nuclear bomb isn't that bad if you're behind a sufficient amount of mass. Yes I know there'll still be pressure waves and building collapses and fire and the rain and all that garbage but we have actually nuked cities we have these anecdotal accounts. Its bad, sure, but people have surprising stories of survival through the baddest of times.

>>12632 You don't seem to understand how much more powerful today's fusion (hydrogen) bombs are than the puny atomic (fission) bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or the huge number of them that will strike targets compared to the two dropped in Japan. Unlike a fission bomb, a fusion bomb can be made arbitrarily powerful without limit (as long as you can contain the fusion process), so powerful that they exceed any military usefulness. Such bombs have been built and tested.

>>12633 those bombs get stopped by the horizon, diffused into space, etc etc. yes sure ok you're probably not going to survive under the same defenses, maybe the sphere of total destruction is larger, but the fact of the matter is is that almost anything can be blocked and serendipity is a powerful force. Huge numbers of people died in Hiroshima, obviously. But life is weird. >can be made arbitrarily powerful without limit you can stack ten times ten to the bazillionth tons of dynamite together if you want to. These bombs are still burning fuel and its not just air or dirt or something. >huge number of them will strike targets I was replying to the remark that 'there's no surviving a direct hit'. Yes I imagine if the real war starts and the nukes work things will be bad all over the place. All I'm saying is that people will survive in surprising circumstances. It happens all the time. There was a guy that survived the collapse of the WTC with a broken leg, he was on the 22nd floor (which was totally obliterated) when the collapse started. People get shot through the neck and are fine. Some russian air stewardess survived a mid air disintegration and returned to her job. Bizarre things happen all the time, get used to it (but don't count on it). Obviously if you want to survive its better to not be where the hits are going to happen.

>>12636 >These bombs are still burning fuel and its not just air or dirt or something. Confirmed that you have no understanding whatsoever of either fission or fusion. Neither "nurns fuel". That's a chemical process like dynamite. You could not, in fact, build a practical arbitrarily powerful dynamite bomb because of the weight and size involved. Fission power is the release of energy cause by atomic nuclei splitting apart in fissionable material. It's not a chemical process of "burning fuel". But it does require more fissionable material for more power, so it can't be used to make practical arbitrarily powerful bombs. Fusion energy is the release of energy cause be the joining together of partcles to create more complex nuclei. The energy release is so enormous and requires so little physical material that it is quite practical to create arbitrarily powerful fusion bombs. I have no idea why you would be arguing about this since it's more than abvious that you don't have the first clue about it.

>>12638 maybe I call it fuel and burning because thats the standard jargon lol. Here Ill humor you with some more retarded banter despite having zero idea what Im talking about fission bomb has limited quantity of fue--fissionable material. yeah sure ok maybe you could fiss the nitrogen in the air or something but to my knowledge no one has ever done that nor knows how. fusion likewise has a quantity of fuseable material. Yeah ok its not like carrying a billion tons of dynamite because the energy released is much denser, thats sort of the whole point of these bombs, but its still a finite quantity of burnable material and once you're out of it you're out and you're not going to start fusing the nitrogen in the air or something. Maybe a little bit through neutron collision or something but its not a major effect. Tritium by the way also doesn't just grow on trees its kinda a valuable commodity that you want to use economically, and for bombing surface targets and stuff that generally means more smaller bombs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_plasma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fuel

>>12639 you are just writing words and not addressing their point >standard jargon yes, I'm sure the people that make atomic bombs talk like underage 4channers if you want to make a point, post how much material a fusion bomb carries and what would be the practical limit

>>12640 what would be the practical limit to how much dynamite you can pile together ? US tritium supply is very low so the current practical limit is not that big unless we cancel ITER.

>>12640 and for what its worth some nuclear physicists literally are fourchanners or ex four channers. Im not one though I'm literally just a retard.

>>12636 >>12633 I don't know why anyone seriously considers the threat of a nuclear war in the current age and day. That's not to say neither of you don't know what you're talking about, you both seem educated on the topic but with cyber, intelligence and economic warfare capabilities as they are today, what is the use in destroying a target and initiating mutually assured destruction when you can cripple their infrastructure? Personally, the SHTF scenario is wide-scale infrastructure disruption and destruction the likes we saw in Ukraine circa. 2014-2015

>>12649 well the standard argument for MAD is that if you have nothing to loose you might as well make the other guy loose a lot, too. Its not even prep for an invasion necessarily, its just that the threat of destruction on a scale no one has ever seen before, taking place across your entire country over the course of a few hours, is a significant weight on the mind of any leader considering a war. I think a lot of these war-by-other-means tricks have been developed because the fear of an all out peer war between the Great Powers is so high. The aversion to using nukes is making people forget that they remain a potent option.

>>12649 >Personally, the SHTF scenario is wide-scale infrastructure disruption and destruction the likes we saw in Ukraine circa. 2014-2015 Ukraine is actually the best case scenario. The Russian attackers are not trying to exterminate the Ukrainian people or destroy the Ukrainian country. They have kept bombings and civilian causalities to a minimum precisely because they want to rule over the territory they capture with a minimal amount of resentment and insurgency. When the war is over it doesn't matter to the average Ukrainian if he pays taxes to dictator Putin or dictator Zelensky. Both sides value Ukrainian life. Contrast this with what Israel has done to Gaza or what Saudi has done to Yemen. The attackers carpet bomb cities and infrastructure to rumble and survivors are being starved to death or used for sniper target practice. War is very different when one side doesn't even value you as a tax slave and simply wants you dead because you have the wrong skin color or religion. >>12642 >what would be the practical limit to how much dynamite you can pile together ? US tritium supply is very low so the current practical limit is not that big unless we cancel ITER. The bombs already exist though. Both Russia and USA have around 10,000 hydrogen bombs each. As >>12633 tried to explain to you these are orders of magnitude more powerful that the fission bombs dropped on Japan. They are big enough to vaporize entire cities in a flash. When they run nuclear war simulations they end up bombing Moscow and Beijing a dozen times because these bombs are so destructive they run out of targets before they run out of missiles. >>12611 >How to form a communist tribe or gang to protect yourself Protect yourself from what comrade? Don't you know that property is theft you should give all your food and water to the refugees.

Man, I'm so bummed now my place is even on official and publicly known targets of a full on MAD scenario so I won't even be able to loot this commie larper's twink ass when shtf.. At least it will be ogre fast for me. Anyway, the living will envy the dead, dear OP.

>>12655 >10k each thats exaggerating by a factor of at least two for US assuming official numbers are correct. >vapourize entire cities in a flash subjective description but obviously not true, certainly not for modern sprawling metropolises. >orders of magnitude larger than the fission bombs of wwii there's a pretty big range of yield in the US arsenal especially if you include the dial a yield. W76-2's are modern and are actually lower than the wwii bombs though there aren't too many w76-2's from what I can tell. There may be some b83s still around at ~50x wwii scale (not multiple orders of magnitude) that appear to be designated as bunker busters but that is as big as the current US arsenal appears to go. >run out of targets before they run out of missiles cities are big. Even a 500kt bomb doesn't effectively cover Moscow and its suburbs, nor even my random not very important city, (and just making a bigger bomb isn't always an efficient solution because of for instance, the horizon). If you actually want to wipe out the city that usually means a bunch of specific targets in the city that aren't all right next door to eachother and may include targets like rail yards that don't exactly catch fire or collapse in the same way buildings do, so you typically want multiple bombs in a relatively small area. Obviously doubletapping also avoids problems if one thing goes wrong and dozentapping is well, certainly a safer option still.

The Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs were equivalent to about 15,000 to 20,000 (thousands) tonnes of TNT. The largest hydrogen bomb ever tested, the "Tsar" bomb of the USSR, was equivalent to about 50,000,000 (millions) tonnes of TNT. With aa design change, it could easily have been 100,000,000. The only reason today's hydrogen bombs aren't as powerful is because there isn't any military use for them.

>>12627 >There's no surviving a direct hit, not even military bunkers. They don't take VIPs to bunkers but evacuate them by chopper if a nuke is inbound. If you survive it will be pic related but worse. Depending on where the nuke lands in my city and what kind of nuke it is I'd be in fireball radius or moderate blast damage radius. So I think there would be hope for me but I don't know where to start.

>>12698 >dont know where to start If you actually care, if you're in that situation, the best bet is probably to move someplace better. Short of that you want to spend the bulk of your time away from the probable targets. If you have to work close to a target maybe you can't change that, but hopefully your house can be a relatively safe location. If you can move in town, consider a place that is shielded by terrain from probable targets. Even if you're not sure where a bomb will blow, its better to be close to a hill that might block a considerable fraction of line of site to possible detonation points. There are a lot of points to consider, police stations often are good to live by because the buildings in their vicinity often get on the same special power grid which means you'll be first to get power restored and receive other special infrastructure attention, for instance. You'll want to harden your house. Windows are bad for a lot of reasons. I imagine installing plastic windows might be better for anti shatter reasons, but you could also likely install plastic screens on the inside. Another point to be concerned about is the immediate aftermath. You'll want food, water, supplies to last at least a few weeks. A lot of the danger of fallout is escapeable if you avoid contact with dust. Get air filters, plastic sheeting, and a staple gun so you can cover windows (which may have shattered) and doors during this critical time. You want to keep a respirator in your car, and if possible a secondary mode of transport like a folding bike that you can pull out if either your car is disabled, or roads are impassible. Get robust tires ( I have good experience with kevlar tires), spare inner tubes, and a pump. When you get home be prepared to discard your clothes and thoroughly clean yourself even without power or running water, and you will want this cleaning solution accessible near your house's entrance at all times. Make sure you know how to get around even with landmarks altered. After that typical prepper plans apply.

>>12698 Have you looked up what "moderate blast damage" means? It isn't a tornado lol

Will you LARP users STFU about nerding out over nukes. Doing something is better than nothing so long as it is not unreasonably expensive or labor intensive for the chance risk of anything like that happening. You want to plan for something you need to plan for all scenarios not just your favorite doomsday scenario. Something that is fairly flexible is the use of water container barriers. They can stop bullets, and shrapnel. They can shield nuclear radiation and hold back flood waters. They can be a source of clean drinking water. You can reduce radiation in soil with hemp, sunflowers, or mushrooms. All of these suck the radiation out of the ground and can be transported away, Mushrooms can break down things like motor oil in soil in time If you grow food you should set it up in a way there is redundancy of isolated colonies of your crop. This reduces risk of everything dying from some disease at once because the isolation. Sleep in the bathroom tub if one with no window in event of natural disaster or where you live becoming a war zone. Ceramic wall tiles from the walls and fiberglass can potentially reduce risk of harm from bullets or shrapnel. The smaller rooms are sturdy so safer in event of earthquakes, tornados, hurricanes, tsunamis. This is if you have no where else to go that is better.

>>12611 Have a guns and friends whom you can trust with your life and who have guns. Join whoever become the stronger side. >>12613 This. Our world have already fallen and we are just going trough the motions. It's not just gas prices anymore. >>12712 Are American huts so frail that the bathtub is the stronger part of the home?

I have to imagine that a basement is going to be better than a bathtub, if you have a basement. If you want build a small enclosed box (obviously with air holes) around a basement 'bedroom' in case house collapses on you, and keep a good kit inside bedroom including breakout supplies, some medical equipment and emergency food+water to last you a bit, and probably a sealable bucket for waste. Of course if you're stuck in your basement under a burning collapsed neighborhood you're probably screwed but if it just collapses I imagine you can be OK.

>>12712 the big problem with bathtubs is that while they are always an extra sort of armor which is good, a lot of them are way too small. Its better to build yourself an armored box in which you can lay flat. It doesn't need to have a lid, could just be a concrete (very cheap+easy to work with but still solid) open top trough of your size. The small room point still stands though.

>>12714 Yeah, you're right if you talking a wooden home since basements are made of cement walls and sometimes have central steel support beams you can visually see where the support walls are. Though I feel basement might not be best in every scenario and home just because I would worry about flooding and total house collapses. Some basements the only way in and out is a single staircase which is a problem if there is a fire. Some basements have wooden shutter doors which isn't all that sturdy while others have glass sliding doors which is even worse. Plus not all homes have basements which is why I mentioned it. During a collapse is it better to be in a basement or higher up? I suppose it really depends a lot. Lower down means more debit to fall on you potentially but unless it is very bad situation chances are there wont be a total collapse so basement might be better except for previously stated reasons. >>12713 > Are American huts so frail that the bathtub is the stronger part of the home? Yes except for the basment but depends on the house layout. Most homes in the US are made of wood frames built on a concrete foundation. The wood can be compromised in event of termite infestation and the walls are often just plywood. They are not very resistant to fires. Electrical fires are one of the more common causes of house fires so in event of a power surge that is an issue. >>12715 Yes, it was something I came up with for someone in a conflict zone. He didn't have a basement and i had seen some videos where tiles could slow a bullet so I figured a bathroom is safest space in such case. Only thing better would be an inner room in a brick building because you would have more walls to stop shrapnel and bullets.

I hate how almost every prepping discussion devolves to this. Please be reasonable and prepare for things that are actually likely to happen in the first place like natural disasters or long term power outages, leave the nuke prepping for last if you really feel the need to do it. Truth is the only reasonable way to go about prepping is to have a supply of non perishable food that is constantly in rotation, a supply of drinkable water or the means to obtain it easily and most importantly have at least a few people you can trust, maybe establish some sort of emergency way of contacting them that is not reliant on the cell network. Last one might be a little awkward to do with neighbors - they will be weirded out if you hand them a HAM radio even if you are on good terms with them but family or close friends should unerstand. Bug out bags are silly, your priority should be a well equipped EDC kit that will get you home safely and a bigger get-home-bag to keep in your car at all times (if you have one that is). The reality is that if you have to "bug out" and you followed my advice in the first paragraph you will not be bugging out alone, having everything prepared in a bag won't help speed up your evacuation because you will be waiting for others to get ready. Keeping your soykaf in a bug out bag only makes it more likely that you will be too lazy to rotate any perishable items regularly. Have a good hiking backpack ready but all the supplies neccessary for the bug out scenario are better off on a shelf where you can easily and somewhat regularly inspect them. A lot of people mention gathering items for barter and gold/silver coins are often mentioned - truth is if we are talking about a scenario severe enough for currency to lose its value completely then gold or silver won't do either. I personally have a decent stock of water purification tablets - they are cheap to get now, extremely lightweight and are bound to an excelent barter item. Cigarettes are also great, especially if you are not a smoker and won't feel the need to use them yourself. Also, take care of yourself. Do regular health checkups, stay somewhat fit at the very least. You don't want to find out you have a dead tooth or experience your first diabetic attack when the doctors are barricading themselves in their homes.

Has anybody here looked into those lora radios that can broadcast text messages over a large range? I saw a video about them of some group dropping battery power relays onto a disaster zone to allow people to contact them for help but that was many years ago and I haven't heard of them ever since.

>>12763 >inb4 you will be killed by a group of raiders who pick up your broadcasts

>>12757 I think bugout bags may be less silly than bugging out. Putting such a kit together forces you a little bit to think about what you actually want/need in an emergency and so just putting one together can be a useful excercise. Trying to live out of one for a bit even more so. There are a lot of little essential items that you don't think about and its good to have multiple of them available in the event that stores/supply lines/etcetc go to soykaf. Additionally even if you're not actually bugging out you may want an overnight kit in a lot of sorts of scenarios and a bugout bag is a great starting point for such a kit. Certainly a lot of other things are important, and a 'get home bag' is probably pretty sensible. Sometimes surprising to me just how little emergency gear people keep in their cars

>>12626 >>12627 >>12628 It'll come down to location. Most people will survive the initial blast, and whether fallout happens will come down to whether it was a groundburst or an airburst. Airbursts typically cause more damage immediately, while groundbursts allow fallout to happen (there was an experiment where a nuke was detonated over the heads of some scientists- they did not suffer from radiation poisoning). Still, it will be useful to be prepared in case fallout does happen- KI pills, masks, the usual. Also, fallout would only be dangerous for a couple weeks before most of it decays. Additionally, there's still significant debate about whether nuclear winter would actually happen or if it was rhetoric to spur deterrence efforts.

>>12764 >>12764 raiders get lured in haha traps also SNIPED

>>12716 > I suppose it really depends a lot. Lower down means more debit to fall on you potentially but unless it is very bad situation chances are there wont be a total collapse so basement might be better except for previously stated reasons. in tornados and everything you want to get into the basement. Even in a garbage house, its kind of a bunker, you've got a huge dirt wall on all sides that will protect you from flying debris, bombs, nukes, whatever. Obviously its not perfect but its generally better to be low down, certainly than high floors and even than ground level in most cases. House collapsing on you is an issue but its not much worse than being on ground level and a lot better than dropping 10+ feet during a collapse (which could even be the case if you're falling into a basement from ground floor) into a collapsing house. I do like the idea of keeping supplies close at hand though, axes, levers/crow bars, etc etc, to help break yourself out if you need to. FWIW at least where I have spent much time a high fraction of basements do have small high windows at ground level in the top ~18 inches of the basement, which is a very viable escape route if its not obstructed. Sleep right against a basement perimeter wall with such a window and you'll likely be in a relatively safe structural triangle with a viable escape route right over your head even if the house totally crashes down. (Im assuming like a normal house here not some giant tower or something)

>>12704 Im not alltogether sure these are that different, the thing in tornados though is that you might have them in the area, but your house is probably not getting obliterated even if they're right in the neighborhood. With the bomb, the whole neighborhood gets hit (and also fire and radiation). You can totally survive your house getting trashed like this if you have a basement or shelter. Its not great but it is survivable.

I remember there being an info library with some books on guerrilla warfare/survival and the like in the past, but I can't find it for the life of me, maybe it was saved in an old computer. I'm particularly interested in Vietnam makeshift traps and the like (yes, I'm rewatching Rambo)

Get an old car or pickup truck with no computer, an EMP won't knock it out. Beware of army surplus gas masks, a lot have been disabled. Spirulina is about the only anti-radiation supplement you can get freely. This is a good archive of prepping books from some people who thought the magnetic poles would shift in 2012. Obviously, they didn't but the archive is still one of the best. https://web.archive.org/web/20160303025957/https://www.ps-survival.com/

>How to form a communist tribe or gang to protect yourself The difference between Ted Kaczynski and Charles Manson is social skill, if you are good enough with people you are guaranteed to have followers. >What to put in a bug out bag Compact food that will not spoil if you leave it a year in a bag, some water, money, a copy of your ID if you care to live in a society, basic tools and a powerbank if you have a smartphone. >Skills needed to gather food and water It depends on the region you live, on my region there a lot of accessible rivers so getting water would not be that hard, you should probably learn purification methods though. >What food to grow Peanuts, potatoes and sweet potatoes are very easy to cultivate.

alright all depends on the potential scenario , which begins with your likely location in that scenario ( which is something you should keep secret ( even if you plan on preparing with others, why ? because even if its your closest ally they could be captured and tortured, or breakdown and snitch on you due to mental issues, there is absolutely no exception to opperational security. · the minimum is to have knowledge, the more applicable that knowledge is the more valuable becomes, even for example even stuff like this tha tseems like common sense can and would be considered valuable information. especially to normal people without common knowledge ( very dangerous, stay away ). · in general; be able to adapt and be aware of your environment. · have a base layer of useful skills that you can use as barter. - e.g.: storytelling or singing since they require no tools / ! \ tools that can be robbed (potentially cause you to be harmed in the process), break (unreliable tools, dangerous to rely on them), or simply be lost. · ontop of that put a layer of basic necessity (highly reccommended practiced at least once skills): - gathering (know vegetation/edibles in your location, know where to get and how to prepare safe drinking water), - hunting ( fish / trap etc ), - create shelter for yourself and others (how to shield you from the elements) again, depending on your environment, if you plan for urban, adapt, if you plan for rural, adapt. as correctly mentioned before, some things are retail therapy. question is what do you need and what is retail therapy addiction ( superfluous doomscroll anxiety induced retail medication ). there are valuable key items that you simply want to have in the scenario and that you can not miss out on because they simply will become or already have been become unavailable. the list here is dynamic-long and depends on your individual plan and your individual location. but again, getting back to common sense, what do you expect, what do you anticipate, what do you 'want' to do ( bug out / bug in / 'community building' / etc ) you have to feel comfortable and have to make yourself comfortable with these items ( tools ) you chose those items because they make things easier, or simply enable you to do things in the first place. always use common sense and practice. most of these "prepper gear" shops etc are just that, profit oriented business. might be good for inspiration and get a overview if you can resist the dark side of the retail therapy. from my experience getting the best quality for the specific item you need for the specific purpose in your preparation almost always costs time and in the end some varying amount of money and time in combination. from experience it's highly unlikely that you will find the best of everything at one place. often times you have to just do it yourself, which is from my experience when the retail therapy enters the next level of the healing process. a good basic entry level step is the "what if" question paired with plausible scenarios. e.g. living in the united states, scenario: yellowstone volcano eruption, check your location, do your research, are you in danger ? is the initial event survivable by chance ? so you survived by chance, whats the fallout of the situation, logistics chain disruptions ? = stack food, stacked food ? (creates risk of being looted, new problem) creates the task = establish a safe and secure(secret) storage space, or other effects might be wildfires, or other adverse climate effects. you might want to have some useful items or "setups" ( depending on location ) your own water reservoir, transportation ( bicycle, electronic mobility device / scooter / bike, combustion engine vehicle ( you might want to have one that can drive on diesel and motor oil ? ) another example: europe and war/economic collapse whole different scenario, ridiculous ( compared to north america ) population density, completely different infrastructure and availabiality of goods/tools, its not impossible but can very well be considered hardmode, good vantage points here are, gtfo, relocate to a body of water, get a boat/ship, drive to remote area and bug out with small community. urban euro collapse, difficult, but not impossible, 4 persons teamed up can manage with good planning. ...all these eventualities and interdependencies shape this into a lifestyle choice. being prepared is always good but with everything being taken into moderation the same goes for news of doom and collapse the most important thing you have to maintain at all times is your sanity and ability to function keep in mind that by thinking about this you already display that you have the ability to see into the future and by that get the chance to react there are many people who do not have this ability this often overlooked fact should act as a constant reminder about your self-value and your value to others, even if they dont know you (yet) or you dont know them (yet)

>>How to form a communist tribe or gang to protect yourself >>Mutual aid and where to get it if you're only doing this *after* things fall apart, you've already lost. Try making friends with your local abuelitas. Mexicans will inherit the earth.

one of the most important things to have when society collapses is a good pair of shoes. all the leftover manufactured footwear will be very quickly depleted, and all the scrap synthetic materials lying around will also be used up or destroyed by the elements within a decade or so - the only long-term solution for footwear will be reviving ancient methods of making boots and shoes out of natural materials. a good pair of shoes will be the most valuable possession a person could have and shoemaking will be one of the most important skills in society. aleuts and other indigenous arctic tribes were the masters of primitive shoemaking, they figured out how to make waterproof shoes thousands of years ago, something the rest of the world never quite got the hang of until the development of modern industry and synthetic textiles. they would make shoes out of a seal esophagus sewn with braided sinew from the tendons - the intestinal material had just the right porosity to keep water out while still letting the feet breathe and sweat to evaporate and the sinew thread would expand when wet and plug the stitching holes. these shoes were perfect for cold wet conditions, which are the most difficult conditions to deal with when it comes to footwear.

>>13675 what good are shoes if you have no feets?

>>13679 what good are feets, if you've no beats? you cannot dance, not jump nor prance. what good is fun, without the sun? great clouds of ash, and teeth that gnash. the water is black, but I dont lack; for on my feets, I've homemade cleats. In all seriousness there's a lot of things one would like to have and I think new shoes only become important on a large scale some time into any disaster. Far more important is food, water, etc. The ill prepared shoemaker dies before his value is widely recognized, and the wise prepper hordes a few spares of his favorite boots. Besides, adequate shoemaking is not that hard and everyone has a decent intro in his copy of Foxfire, volume VI if I recall correctly.

>>13680 i'm just speaking from my own experience with doing a lot of wilderness hiking - there are few things worse in the world than having to walk a long distance with soaked shoes, and if it's cold outside and too wet to build a fire to dry your shoes you're in trouble. >the wise prepper hordes a few spares of his favorite boots. it wouldn't be practical to carry multiple pairs of boots, people didn't do that in olden times, they just wore one pair and kept patching them up as they wore out. you can't really horde much as a doomsday survivor, the most essential things you wear or carry on your person and anything in your knapsack you can expect to lose at any moment, stolen while you're asleep or left unattended, running into marauders and having to ditch your bag and run for it, dropping it into a river or down a ravine, etc. walking around in a really nice fancy pair of boots would probably be a bad idea too, you would just be inviting people to kill you to steal your boots. the wise prepper would probably be wearing a very old smelly pair of boots patched up all over with scraps of hide and bits of twine or wire.

>How to form a communist tribe or gang to protect yourself http://antifaw26xsfwrt57feclcdzw4pkkn5wca2scrhrkltykabecpykndid.onion/

honestly the most useful thing to have in some kind of doomsday scenario is not any kind of material goods that are cumbersome to carry and will probably get ruined or stolen eventually, but just the knowledge inside your head that doesn't weigh anything and can't be taken away from you. we kind of take knowledge for granted now because it's all electronic and can be found on the internet, but if society collapses everything electronic goes with it and all that will be left is what's already inside people's heads and whatever paper books manage to survive, and good luck carrying an entire set of encyclopedias with you everywhere you go. prepper mentality often makes the assumption that every man can be a self-reliant island unto himself and live in some kind of fortified shelter full of guns and canned goods and everything else a person would ever need, but that's not really practical in the real world. your fortified shelter will just be a honeypot and a death trap unless you have an army to defend it. even if it's underground and impossible for people to find you'll eventually run out of canned food and have to leave the shelter and risk exposure. staying in one place is really only possible for a large organized community of people with enough arms to defend the settlement, but that brings its share own problems - crime, infighting, mutiny, etc. as a commune grows in numbers it becomes more self-sufficient but it also becomes more difficult to govern and it becomes more obvious and likely to attract the attention of raiders and rival communes. in essence, being a "prepper" basically means having to reinvent every kind of wheel, to reinvent human civilization from square one and go through the same long grueling process of trial-and-error that the previous civilization had to go through, only to eventually destroy itself. civilization isn't a finished product, it's a fragile cumulative process and if our current civilization collapses most of the knowledge we have will be lost and we will likely repeat pretty much all of the same mistakes that we made the last time around.

>>13684 knowledge is useful to a great degree because sooner or later it turns into material results. Also, its dangerous to think that lets say having a book or having read a book makes you knowledgeable about a skill or craft, or worse, makes you able to do it. I have read books explaining how to make shoes, but without experience I doubt I could make even decent ones, and even less without supplies tools and materials.

>>13687 yeah they call that "process knowledge", the kind of knowledge that you can only learn from lots of personal experience and you can't really write it down or easily transfer it to other people. it's sort of like when you get a new job and they give you an employee handbook to read but the experienced employee who is training you basically tells you "don't even bother reading that crap, this is how you actually do the job"

>>13688 Yes but I think also in order to acquire that process knowledge typically you have to do the process, which in many cases means acquiring the tools and materials to do the task. If you're a prepper type you'll probably want to hang on to those in an organized and secure way, and if you don't hang onto them, then the acquired knowledge is, while not useless, much less useful. >This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. >My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. >Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will This creed can be easily modified for any serious survival tool and its user. No matter how good you know how to shoot or whatever, if you dont have the gun, you're not going to do any good.

>>13689 preppers seem to really love their guns and bullets more than anything else and the sad irony is that stuff will probably among the first things to go after some kind of global civilization-ending catastrophe. with no modern industry or distribution chains most of the munitions will be all used up by about year 5, by year 10 bullets will probably be mythical artifacts and modern firearms will just be useless hunks of metal that you'll never find suitable ammunition for. people pontificate about handcrafting things like modern cartridges and smokeless powder and percussion caps after the apocalypse but they underestimate how inaccessible this technology really is without modern industry and access to the necessary precision tools and refined metals and chemicals, how difficult and dangerous it is to make basic ingredients like mercury fulminate or red phosphorous or nitric acid, how there are very few chemical compounds that have just the right sensitivity to explode when you actually want them to explode and not explode when you don't want them to explode; there's a reason why this technology wasn't developed until after the industrial revolution and civilization was stuck on black powder and matchlocks/flintlocks for like 400 years. that would probably be the ideal firearm to have if civilization collapsed, a flintlock/matchlock for hunting game, lead balls casted from scrounged scrap like tire weights and fishing weights and car batteries and roof flashing. for making black powder, saltpeter could be harvested from cave guano or produced in a crude nitrary from urine and manure and wood ash, charcoal made from burning wood, sulfur could also be recovered from car batteries or mined from volcanic mountains and would probably be the most difficult ingredient to source but it isn't strictly necessary. rifling wouldn't be strictly necessary either and smoothbore guns would be useful for firing other more common projectiles besides lead; small rocks, fired clay balls, hard seeds, nail heads, etc. you could use a primitive smoothbore blunderbuss type gun for hunting small game like squirrels and rabbits and save your lead for hunting larger game. in the end it might make more sense to just make a bow and arrows and practice your archery skills a lot than fiddle with guns and risk attracting unwanted attention with all the noise and smoke.

>>13693 You raise reasonable points but at the end of the day there's going to be a period in any stereotypical SHTF scenario where there's a lot of desperate people with guns and you probably don't want to be a desperate person without a gun, or a desperate person with a muzzle loaded single shot smoothbore. Good modern firearms are pretty good. Ammunition is not that expensive and is reasonably shelf stable. If you're trying to prep, there's no reason not to have some firearms and ammunition stocked away. Great to have your black powder muzzle loader system, too. Likewise, no reason not to have a working GPS and the means to charge it, but good to keep paper maps of your area, as well.

>>13694 lol gps? dude... pray that you never have to live through something like this, pray to every god you can think of that it never happens.

>>13695 I dont even know what to say to this drivel of a post. The point is modern conveniences are nice. If you've never used it, GPS is excellent, it can basically tell you exactly where you are really fast and easy. Obviously if civilization collapses utterly, its not going to keep working forever, and if a giant war breaks out, there's a decent chance it gets just shutdown or disabled. But its a tool and as long as it works, its a really good tool. Worth pointing out that a lot of disasters are not global nuclear wars or things like that. Hurricanes, forest fires, floods, local wars. Sometimes these can get plenty bad locally. Prepping can help deal with these situations and generally they don't last so long that your stash of bullets will run out with no hope of ever resupplying, nor even do the GPS satellites fail. Muzzle loading is cool though and could be useful and obviously plenty of reasons to have paper maps and know how to use them.

>>13696 >If you've never used it, GPS is excellent, it can basically tell you exactly where you are really fast and easy. Obviously if civilization collapses utterly, its not going to keep working forever yes, i have used gps and i understand what it is. if civilization collapses there's no electrical grid anymore, there's no ground stations to keep satellites synced up and keep gps networks operational, there's no working wall outlets to plug your phone into, in the initial panic gas stations will be warzones with mobs of armed crazy people shooting each other and frantically hooking up generators to power the pumps and suck up as much fuel as they can carry and get the hell out of there as fast as possible, with no refineries or supply chains the gas stations will run out of fuel in a matter of days, people running generators will burn up all their hoarded fuel within a couple of weeks, car batteries will be drained with no fuel to run the alternators, solar panels only work when they are in mounted in some highly visible obvious place where everyone and their brother will see them and try to rip them off and they wear out and you can't make new ones without a high tech industrial sector. devices like mobile phones would pretty much instantly become useless doorstops, trying to use the gps app on a smartphone would be an incredibly retarded and frivolous waste of precious electricity when you could just use a simple paper map and road signs and landmarks to figure out where you are. the only useful electronic devices would be things like flashlights and portable radios that run on common disposable batteries but even those won't hold out for very long, people will be looting and using up batteries like crazy and the leftover ones sitting in kitchen drawers in abandoned houses will probably be expired. i grew up on the gulf coast and lived through a bunch of hurricanes and winter storms that knocked out the power grid for weeks so maybe i have somewhat of a more nuanced understanding than the average first-worlder of how fragile civilization really is and how quickly all the modern conveniences go out the window when all the infrastructure we take for granted is suddenly destroyed. interestingly enough, i noticed that during all of these crises, all the crazy prepper types stampeding through stores buying as much crap as they could carry were usually people who were new to the area and never experienced something like this before, they would just panic and start buying things to give themselves a feeling of security, they would buy things that didn't even make sense like giant packs of toilet paper and perishables like milk and eggs and raw meat that would get ruined as soon as the power went out.

>if civilization collapses Global collapse isn't the only reason to improve your resiliency. You says it yourself. Does the GPS stop working when the grid is down in Texas? >solar panels only work when they are in mounted in some highly visible obvious place Portable solar panels work just fine for charging a smartphone, a radio, or AA batteries. Hell, even a laptop can be charged, even if it might not be used continuously. >and they wear out You've got a couple decades ahead of you. You can also include wind and water turbines, that could be reasonably maintained and even built anew without global manufacturing. Post-collapse people will keep using electricity, I am sure of it. A pair of relevant links: https://livingenergyfarm.org/, https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/ >all the crazy prepper types stampeding through stores buying as much crap as they could carry It doesn't sound like they did much prepping.

>>13696 A gps device has maps that can be used offline and recharged using a simple solar charing panel. Even when it does not have a satelite downlink it still remains useful. Many gps devices can be updated and configured by the user, whereas smartphones need special software to work without internet, if at all nowdays. Its fairly safe to say when soykaf hits the fan gasoline will run out, but electricity will remain in limited amounts, hell you can use lemons and potatoes to make energy.

>>13699 >>13700 you guys aren't interested in survival and you don't even know what it means, you're just interested in trying to retain your sense of control and hang on to your modern hobbies and conveniences and first-world standard of living because that's the only life you've ever known and you can't even imagine any other way to live. again i say, pray that society never collapses and that you never have to learn how to fend for yourselves with no air conditioning or computers or smartphones or social media or vidya or any of the other ostentatious luxuries you enjoy, you are too sheltered and soft to survive in that world and you wouldn't last a month.

>>13701 >in order to prepare for disaster you must only use tools that you can personally construct, maintain and supply off of stuff you can grow in your garden or pick up on the side of the road.

>>13703 the difference is that I can fit all my music, memes, programming projects, documents, video games, my OS setup, etc. in a 1 TB removable drive that weighs 50 grams and it's really not a significant thing to carry around.

>>13702 more like, you have to re-evaluate all of your priorities and figure out what things are actually important to you and let go of all the excess baggage that only distracts you and slows you down. this is not an easy thing to do, it's very painful and sad because a lot of this baggage are things that were once very important to you and it's like you are having to strip away pieces of yourself and discard them for the sake of your own survival. it's sort of like in the grapes of wrath when the joad family are about to set out on the road to california and ma joad is sitting in front of the kitchen stove burning all of her precious family heirlooms and photographs because there's no room in the truck for them and they have no practical purpose, all these things she cherished have to be physically and mentally discarded. your smartphone, your computer, your videogames, your collectibles, your favorite shows and movies and music, your internet friends, your favorite websites, all these things that have been a part of who you are for so long will become nothing more than unnecessary baggage and you'll have to force yourself to forget about all of it and focus on essential things, like food and water and your shoes. in essence, you have to discard yourself and become an entirely new person, a leaner and meaner kind of person, like a soldier surviving a war or a prisoner surviving years of incarceration. and the process is irreversible and you will never be the same again, even if things around you go back to normal.

>>13705 Look man, the reason I chose GPS as an example is because its actually very useful but has a limited future in a total collapse scenario. Like the good modern firearm with modern ammunition, its a dang nice thing to have, and it will probably, if you think ahead and have means to keep one charged, with downloaded maps, be useful for some length of time even in a total societal collapse. The fact that its useful lifetime isn't infinite doesn't obviate its usefulness. In your stereotypical prepper nuclear war scenario, its good to be prepared to be the guy who knows how to make muzzle loaders etc etc. But for the early disaster, you're going to have to deal with a very different situation than you will 2 years down the road. You might want to carefully ration ammo, fuel, etc etc etc, but you're dealing with people who are very desperate and are going to use whatever they have available to try to improve their outlook and will operate in unsustainable strategies in order to achieve some short term advantages. Its not unreasonable to operate unsustainably yourself, short term, in order to secure and preserve your advantages. The tools of modernity will not last for ever, but they're good. Use them well, while their usefulness remains, and while cognizant of their limitations and vulnerabilities. And on top of that, most disasters aren't total societal collapses, most of the time you never really make it out of the early disaster to the point where GPS fails and muzzleloaders are the primary firearm.

>>13706 i mean let's be honest with ourselves - these kinds of conversations and pepper behavior in general are all just larp, childish fantasies, playing pretend. actual survival isn't really about what you have so much as it is what you can do without, how long you can last as more and more things you depend on get taken away from you. people like us with comfortable middle class lives will just be embarrassing ourselves with our pathetic attempts to buy our way out of this like we do with everything else. i think the most adept survivors will be the people who have already been surviving for years and have lots of experience with living by their wits with no money or safety nets, i.e. homeless bums, rural 3rd worlders, etc. probably the best thing you could do to prepare for some kind of doomsday scenario is just go hang out with people like that, let them teach you how to live with nothing.

>>13707 Let me summarize what I think your beliefs here are: >Actual survival is about what you can live without. Because it takes effort to give things up, properly preparing for collapse/disaster requires giving things up beforehand. I've lived through small disasters and emergencies. Maybe this is me, but I think giving stuff up is easy. I like to read books, play games, whatever. In an emergency, I know I can go months without thinking about this at all. A switch just flips because more important things are in front of me. Afaict many people are like this, maybe the great majority. What is important to survival ? Food, water, shelter, security. Homeless bums depend on modern economies and logistics just as much as anyone, maybe more because they live off the surplus that most people aren't willing to put in the effort to extract. If you take away the charity, take away the dumpsters full of food behind restaurants and groceries, and add in about a hundred times as many people trying to look for the scraps, those homeless guys are in trouble. I could probably stand to loose ten pounds and I'm not overweight. A lot of homeless people are already skinnier than me and less healthy. I don't think they're going to be faring well in the fight for scraps, and they can't stand to loose the weight that the average person can. I write this as I think about the homeless guy I passed today, as many days, who seems to spend basically all of his time on his phone. Youtube videos ? Games ? Idk what it is he's doing, but he'll probably have to go without it in a total collapse. The preppers I know, wouldn't need to be in the melee for foodscraps, not immediately anyway, because they have a lot of food stored up if they don't have a garden and sufficient animals to likely cover their needs for a decent length of time. Disasters are capricious and I wouldn't say anyone like that is 100% guaranteed of any sort of success; all it takes is one bit of serious bad luck and they could loose everything, but I would think it would be better to be the guy with a working solar powered fridge, kitchen, and woodshop, and a large garden with ducks and chickens, and a working toilet already built, than it would be to be the homeless bum who hangs out near the grocery store asking for spare change.

>>13707 >homeless bums other poster already said why they are actually much more dependent on the system working than most people >rural 3rd worlders you are correct, and it's odd that you chose to lump them in with bums. However, most rural 3rd worlders actually have very extensive safety nets, because out of necessity they have maintained strong bonds with their extended families and their neighbors. Most of them have experienced one or two crop failures in their life, which to a subsistence farmer can be a disaster equivalent to civilization collapse. On an individual level, most of them have already survived the hardship that you are trying to prepare for. The difference between the civilization collapse we fear and the small-scale, localized collapse that subsistence farmers already deal with semi-regularly, is only the scale. When a small region of the world becomes briefly uninhabitable due to locusts or something, the loss can easily be absorbed in to the larger world system, and those people can be beggars in a nearby city for a year before returning. When a disruption is too great for the global system to absorb, it will take much much longer to return.

>>13709 >Homeless bums depend on modern economies and logistics just as much as anyone, maybe more because they live off the surplus that most people aren't willing to put in the effort to extract. If you take away the charity, take away the dumpsters full of food behind restaurants and groceries, and add in about a hundred times as many people trying to look for the scraps, those homeless guys are in trouble. you have a very ignorant conservative conception of what being homeless is like. homeless people don't live off of charity, they don't find dumpsters full of free food every day, they don't collect buckets of free money from bleeding heart liberals, they have to work. being homeless is a very difficult and low-paying job with a 24-hour shift and no overtime pay or benefits, homeless people work nonstop doing odd jobs, day labor, finding things to sell and people to sell them to, running every kind of street hustle they can think of. they don't leech off the system, they are crushed by the system, the system that replaces their jobs with machines or outsources their jobs to foreigners, kicks their asses and throws them in jail if they ever try to organize or unionize or do their business in the wrong part of town.

>>13711 >being homeless is very difficult >they are crushed by the system nobody disagrees with this. However, it is undeniably true that they are *more* dependent on the economic system, in particular the availability of waste and low-cost food, than anyone else. If they were self-sufficient in producing food or having decent shelter, they definitionally wouldn't be homeless.

>>13709 >If they were self-sufficient in producing food or having decent shelter, they definitionally wouldn't be homeless. just keep on moving those goalposts

>>13713 What's the definition of homelessness?

>>12611 When taking prepping into mind, I often consider Spain and Yugoslavia's civil wars, along with the literature that came out from these times of crisis. In any sort of collapse situation, a strong community and the ability to connect with it is the biggest possible boon that you could ever be gifted. Hypothetically, it finally happens: you find yourself short on water and the next rainfall isn't for a week. Your neighbor might offer plenty of drinking water in exchange for technical skills you might have, such as the ability to fix his laptop, or being able to tinker with his AC unit. You don't need to worry about your neighborhood being raided, because the local construction worker helped board up windows, and the gun guys take turns doing patrols around the neighborhood. You rely on other people, and they come to rely on you. It doesn't matter what items you own, where you can go, or so forth. What matters is whether or not you have a skillset that can contribute to your community.

>>13715 Exactly this. The best way to prep is to make friends whom you will want to help and who will want to help you in return. Humans are social animals and would have gotten extinct long ago if not for it.

>>13716 Unfortunately, making meaningful connections is hard in modern society, because of how atomized it is.

>>13717 This is true, but you said it yourself. It is hard, it's not impossible. If there are people in your area that you're unsure of now, or the ever-present social zeitgeist simply makes it so that a natural connection is out of the question, simply reducing any present social grain can help in the future. Let them know that you exist, make them aware of who you are, express a friendly attitude, etc. You don't even need to stick around long enough to make small talk. I imagine that a solid first few impressions might reduce any social hesitance that might rise if things go awry, especially if the communal aspect wasn't already present.

>>13715 >>13716 >>13717 and you know who is really good at making meaningful connections with people in the local analog face-to-face world? bums, junkies, petty street criminals, all the kinds of people that mainstream bourgeois society looks down upon as the absolute scum of the earth, the kinds of people that squares drive past on the street every day and try not to pay any attention to. when the industrial capitalist system has collapsed and you want to know where to get a pallet of lumber or a spool of wire or a set of wrenches or a bottle of pills, you can't rely on google or the yellow pages or your local walmart for this soykaf anymore, you have to go find JJ the one-toothed crackhead and ask him, JJ knows how to get pretty much anything, JJ knows everybody and knows everything about the city, JJ has google maps inside his brain and knows every street like the back of his hand and knows the quickest way to get there, JJ is the guy you want to be friends with when the soykaf hits the fan.

>>13719 >you have to go find JJ the one-toothed crackhead and ask him, JJ knows how to get pretty much anything Or just my girlfriend's dad that is a manager at home depot and has all the keys, or my drug dealer that isn't a crackhead and is actually studying at university. JJ's meth psychosis makes him inherently unreliable, and in reality he has very limited resources compared to people that I actually know and trust. Only desperate people will go to JJ, and he'll rob many of them.

>>13720 your girlfriend's dad's set of keys for the home depot won't be worth a damn after the rabble kick the doors in and loot the whole joint, and your friend who is side hustling while studying at uni is just a weekend warrior and he's never done any time and he doesn't know how to run the streets without the blanket of protection that his respectable bourgeoise identity provides him, when the university is gone and his parents' money becomes worthless he'll just be a soft flabby babe in the woods like everyone else of his ilk

>>13721 >your girlfriend's dad's set of keys for the home depot won't be worth a damn after the rabble kick the doors in and loot the whole joint, And you think JJ's knowledge of how to break in to Home Depot will be? >and your friend who is side hustling while studying at uni is just a weekend warrior and he's never done any time and he doesn't know how to run the streets without the blanket of protection that his respectable bourgeoise identity provides him And you think that will make him unable to get drugs? Also, you're making a *lot* of generalizations there. College students come from all walks of life. I've met some that were ex-cons and ex-military. You seem to have a very "zombie movie" idea of what collapse looks like. As if you wake up one day and you're in the world of Mad Max, and for some reason tweekers are the most reliable people around. That's just not how it works. Go look up what the collapse of the Soviet Union was like, or what the bubonic plague was like. The stories of survival are a lot more complex than "guy was a petty criminal already so he was fine".

>>13719 That is a very good point, these people are used to extremely harsh conditions and self reliance that makes them the demographic that will outlive the rest. They are one of the last people who dont suck up on the tits of the very state that got them into the mess in the first place. The drug dealers have connections to lots of people and drugs are always needed, they are in the winning position. People on the street have street smarts that will always apply and they know the reality of things. >>13722 From what i hear collage students dont have all that many connections and only theorethical knowledge, in practice most of them have no established place. Also when soykaf hits the most will lose their soykaf and cant handle the reality of things, those who are used to harsh conditions and have little to no expectations will remain level headed and not panic.

>>13723 >from what I hear from what I experience, that is true of *most* but not *all* college students

>>13723 >That is a very good point, these people are used to extremely harsh conditions True, this builds resiliency and resourcefulness but their livelihood is still completely dependent on the system working as intended. If shops don't work, there is nothing to steal, if there are no restaurants throwing away food there is no food to be found in dumpsters. Begging doesn't work, burglary doesn't work. Throw them in the wilderness and they will die like the rest of the city dwellers. Their avenues of livelihood depend on the cracks in the working system. >drugs are always needed *wanted. Also I will argue the opposite. Trust becomes #1 currency if soykaf hits the fan and drug dealers are not high up there on the list of people to trust. One should not expect better from people who profit off of other people's addictions. Demand and profit for drugs would in any case decrease as resources become scarce and priorities change from partying to survival

>>13719 JJ is going through withdrawl, and alot of of his friends are actively trying to flee the city. A lot already have fled. JJ knows where this stuff was last week, but half the shops in town have been looted and the other half is being looted right now. If anyone can talk to the gangsters who've taken over this one street and basically blocked it off, it might be JJ, but he'll actually have to go there in person with you and JJ wants something good in return for doing it, not to mention a payment to the gangsters. Usually JJ would pay them some drugs or a favor but now his stash is empty and favors don't cut it. When you get to the place with the wrench, the shop is already being setup as a basecamp by Doug the homeless crackhead from eastside. He's also going through withdrawls and very antsy and somehow he got a shotgun or maybe he already had it and is happy to shoot before you even realize he's there. What you probably want to do, is be the guy who already has the wrenches you want, and the food you want, and be able to basically just opt out of the early scavenger/looter melee. Maybe JJ is the best guy to have as a friend during it, idk. But with enough comfy middleclass cash and foresight you can get most of the tools you want and need, and the means to keep them running, as well as food and water. That is what being a prepper is about.

>>13726 Not to mention that if I can find JJ then a lot of other people can also find JJ including a lot of other desperate crack addicts who won't necessarily believe him when he says he has nothing. JJ probably does have some things of value. Not all the people he'll be dealing with are exactly rational, but all of them are desperate. JJ may be suave and scrappy but its a dangerous situation for sure.

>>13722 That's a great question: what would the collapse look like? Democracy run out of money and become a ditatorship with the optional far left or right flavor? Oil run dry and we are in Mad Max? WWIII? Gas, bio & nukes could be use but don't have to. WWII was fought without the first two. The most likely possibility is that the state would become unwilling to do its job. This is already happening to an extent. >>13719 Street dealers are capitalists who are not good enough to compeete with the legal capitalists. If the state collapse and slavery, private armies and hitmen become fair game, I assure you that the former capitalists will turn into warlords and get even more wealthy.

>>14147 >street dealers are capitalists who are not good enough to compeete.... There are positional advantages and disadvantages. Maybe someone who runs a successful restaurant managing a bunch of cooks and waiters and stuff is constitutionally better suited to being a warlord (lets just suppose he is), but his mind and skills and tools are presently all arranged to run a restaurant, he is not surrounded by people who he knows are ready and willing to do violence for some communal cause. The crackhead drug dealer may be more likely to have immediately some of the trappings of a successful warlord and consequently overcome the ill prepaired restaurant manager before the manager is able to compose a warband capable of challenging a gang of crackheads and hobos. The point of being a prepper is to be the middle class restaurant manager type guy and also be well positioned to either immediately reorient to a more violent, less stable collapse scenario, or at least to be able to safely sit out the early melee, as well as the melee of a temporary disaster ala hurricane katerina, and to assist your friends and allies to do the same as you collectively prepare for whatever happens next.

>>14149 A restaurant manager is actually supposed to know the crew. Some of "their" restaurant's employees would do *something* - restaurant managers are expected to know who's who.

>>14147 I don't think there'll be a collapse, with a discernible breaking point. What's more like is that the continuation of existing trends: rural depopulation, environmental degradation + extreme weather, austerity cuts, job losses due to automation, et cetera. I think WMDs are more likely to be used on local war fronts (Ukraine, Taiwan, the Middle East), without a MAD ever happening. So less Mad Max and more Hobo with a Shotgun. You'd have much of the U.S. starting to look like Brazil, then South Africa, at least in urban areas. Urban areas will be hellholes, outside of upper/(increasingly few) upper-middle class communities, which I reckon will be gated and patrolled by private security. Rural areas though - you can look up how many ghost towns there are in Oklahoma alone, and that number will increase as more and more people flock to overpopulated urban areas because of a lack of employment and degrading infrastructure. Plenty of opportunity to squat and guerrilla-garden. Nobody would give a soykaf if you do, because if having a presence in those areas was at all economical, they wouldn't be abandoned to begin with. For gardening, I would go for potatoes and cabbages - the former for calories, the latter for fermentation to prevent scurvy. This is the basis - grain is also good for fermented drinks and feeding poultry, but grains are not very space-efficient to grow compared to root vegetables. Feral dogs are already a huge issue in soykafholes like India and Russia where they control entire blocks in smaller towns. Rural Canada and Argentina, too - they get big from attacking cattle. So guns will be necessary - there's nothing you can do besides scaring them off with gunshots if they are intent on attacking you. OP mentioned forming a Communist tribe - you don't really need to, just look up Foundation for Intentional Community and pick a tribe/cult of your choice. A lot of these will be rural, and will have certain expectations of you, but it's better than digging for roots in the forest or getting shot in a drive-by in the city. Nonetheless, farmsteads are already attacked in South Africa (not just White farmers btw), and I reckon that something similar will happen in the U.S.

>>14149 Also, line cooks and construction workers are basically meth heads that are still able to hold down jobs. They are the same as this hypothetical JJ, except better. A high quality kitchen crew like a competent manager or foreman would cultivate is already ideally placed to act as a functional unit in a post-collapse scenario. They know how to make bulk amounts of food, they have access to a space with plenty of equipment, they have mutual trust and a working relationship, and they're usually physically fit. If their manager isn't a dummy, he can negotiate taxes with whatever gang takes over the area (because make no mistake, cartels and mafias will almost instantly take over most functions of the state) and keep his boys relatively safe. Let's be real, though, most preppers are too antisocial to do any of this.