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What do you guys think of hydrogen car conversion? Been reading a lot about it and have been thinking of converting my car, or making a pyrolized chicken feather hydrogen tank and just adding it to my car.

>no existing refueling infrastructure >needs more precaution than gas, due to easier leakage >compression/liquidation needed for decent mileage Just built a meme hydrogen power wheel or something, anon. I doubt you can even drive anything hydrogen powered on the road anyway.

>>922 >>no existing refueling infrastructure generator is directly hooked up to alternator and hydrogen is created as it's needed also, it's pretty darn easy to make your own generator and compress it on chicken feather tank on your own >>needs more precaution than gas, due to easier leakage ...ok? I will be more cautious mom >>compression/liquidation needed for decent mileage "or making a pyrolized chicken feather hydrogen tank" Read that? Pyrolized chicken feathers (cheap source of creatine) makes nano structures almost as strong as carbon nanotubes, pourous that can hold on with a lot of hydrogen pdf related if you want to read a little >I doubt you can even drive anything hydrogen powered on the road anyway. yea, because government wants me to have cheap transit that doesn't produce a lot of green house gasses fuarrrk the government

>>922 take a look at this video too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5nld6HzEjM

>>923 >generator is directly hooked up to alternator and hydrogen is created as it's needed So you burn gas in a generator to create electricity (at a loss, where some of the energy inevitably escapes as heat instead of becoming electricity), spend electricity to separate hydrogen gas from water (at a loss, where some of the energy inevitably escapes as heat instead of being stored in the hydrogen gas), and then release the energy you just stored in that hydrogen gas by burning it and turning it into water (at a loss, where some of the energy inevtiably escapes as heat instead of turning into motion in the engine). This is going to be tremendously inefficient and far worse than just burning gas in the engine outright. The idea of creating your own hydrogen as you go just to burn it again is a product of a very naive/uneducated understanding of thermodynamics. It makes about as much sense as using your engine to drive up a hill, coasting down the other side in neutral, and claiming you've just invented a gravity-powered car. The only energy coming out of the system is the energy you put into it in the beginning, either in converting water to hydrogen or by driving up a hill. The best case scenario I can see is hydrogen fuel cells and engines acting as an improved "better-than-a-battery" storage source. Some central refueling system turns a lot of water and electricity into a lot of hydrogen gas and provides it to cars as they pass by. This will be less efficient than just using the power to charge an electric car's battery, but the hydrogen car might make up for it by storing more miles worth of fuel in less space with a cheaper storage medium (not sure how far the technology for this is).

>>925 First off, hydrogen is more energy dense than gasoline (per kg) Second, 1 litre of water has about 1200 litres of gas hydrogen which is about 0.1 kg Also, gasoline burning has lower efficiency than hydrogen burning with oxygen Even with all the losses, you are still increasing efficiency And yea, you have to spend energy to convert energy. Nothing is for free.

HHO generators are bullsoykaf, hydrogen at STP has a pointlessly low energy density. There's plenty of neat stuff you can do with it (as >>925 said, fuel cells are a good low-power energy storage system), but burning it in a normal ICE isn't one of them. >>926 You're mixing units to make it appear more effective. Try working out how large a *volume* of hydrogen you'll have to shovel into an engine to get the same power output as normal gas. You don't move around kilos of H2 - you move litres.

>>927 A show called "Galileo" (originally from Germany but has a lot of country based spinoffs under same name) from Serbia made the test of HHO generators https://youtu.be/mc5iXGXOkNY What do you think about that?

doesn't a hydrogen engine consume more energy then it puts out? i mean if you need a gorrilion horsepower, its nice, but not so good for every day communte

>>926 >Even with all the losses, you are still increasing efficiency You're not. If you get 10 joules of energy burning gas, a very efficient alternator might get you 9 joules of electricity, then electrolysis will get you 8 joules worth of hydrogen gas, then burning that hydrogen will make 7 joules worth of energy. It's physically impossible to get more energy out than you put in. >1 litre of water has about 1200 litres of gas hydrogen The amount doesn't matter. If it costs you $11 to manufacture a shirt and you sell it for $10 you're not going to make a profit no matter what you do. You can put out a great ad campaign and sell 1200 times as many shirts and you still won't make any money.

>>929 > doesn't a hydrogen engine consume more energy then it puts out? That's every engine in existence.

>>923 some napkin math hydrogen combustion releases 286 kj/mol [2] h2 molar mass is 2.016g/mol [1] optimistic wt% of h2 is 1.5% (source you provide, pg15) (572 KJ)/ (2mol) * (1 mol) / (2.016g) * 0.015 *(1 MJ) / (1000 KJ) * (1000 g) / (1 kg) = 2.1 MJ / kg (this is ideal) This is far inferior compared to methane (55.5 MJ/kg) and LPG (46.4 MJ/kg)[3] Not only that, but the hydrogen is stored at most in 50 bar at 350 C with an auto-ignition temp of 500 C [4], compared to CNG at 20 MPa (200 bar) [5] at room temp with an auto temp of 580 C [4], LPG at 220 KPa (2.2 bar) at 55 C [6] with an auto temp of 405 C [5]. A higher pressure means that upon leakage, the gas depressurize, which lowers the temp of the fuel, making it harder to ignite (plus LPG is liquid that boils off and lowers temp upon exposure to the environment, so it's even harder to ignite). The storage method is far inferior and has a lower safety margin than CNG and LPG (Some of you may also notice the values doesn't really match up; I picked the best values for hydrogen, and the worst for CNG and LPG, and hydrogen sucked regardless). You'll be using a soykafty fuel tank that doubles as a bomb. You're better off making syngas or just burn the feathers as a safer alternative. Hell, you can probably even use Lh2 and it might be safer, since it boils upon leakage, lowering the temp and making it harder to ignite. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen#Combustion [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density#Energy_densities_of_common_energy_storage_materials [4] https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fuels-ignition-temperatures-d_171.html [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_natural_gas [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_petroleum_gas